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Steve Johnson picked by Giants - Was it a mistake not to protect him?

ChaosLex

By ChaosLex
in Orioles Talk

Was it a mistake not to protect Steve Johnson now?  

317 members have voted

  1. 1. Was it a mistake not to protect Steve Johnson now?

    • Yes
      108
    • No, the Giants won't keep him. He'll be back with the O's soon
      151
    • No, it's no big loss regardless of whether or not the Giants keep him
      58

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

Posted
Posted
And if he pitches well enough to stick with the Giants all year, it sounds like you'll still rationalize that it wasn't so bad. That's what a lot of people seem to be doing. Steve Johnson might wind up being nothing. However, we could have had him under control for a few years to find out. Chances are that Bass and/or Sarfate will be release this spring and lost for nothing. Chances are that Rhyne Hughes never gets 100 ML AB's. Steve Johnson has a CHANCE to be at least a decent bullpen arm which is more than Brian Bass is or has ever been.

I won't be rationalizing anything if Johnson does well this year with the Giants, I'll be admitting I was wrong in my assessment.

Sarfate and Bass are guys who can be waived at any time to make room for new players acquired this year. They then can be resigned and kept for depth at Triple-A. I doubt either will be on the opening day roster in 2010. The Orioles took a low-risk gamble that Johnson did not have the arm or stuff to get selected in the Rule 5 draft. The Giants decided to take a look for themselves.

Even if Johnson becomes a bullpen guy, what kind of guy will he be? He's an extreme flyball pitcher, which is something you normally do not look for in relievers. I doubt he'll stick, but I certainly will admit to being wrong if Johnson proves me wrong.

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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I've never seen Johnson pitch. He's got a history of racking up strikeouts at a pretty good rate as a starter. He also has a reputation as being savvy on the mound and pitching above his talent. He's not a classic power pitcher because he doesn't throw mid 90's. However he throws low 90's and perhaps he pumps it up into the 92-94 range as a reliever. If we had selected Johnson in the Rule5 people would be calling it a good move. Now that we risk losing him, people just make excuses why it's no big deal.

I'm not sure why you are so upset over this. You are basing your entire argument over his stats, stats which tell you he's an extreme flyball pitcher. You keep glossing over this like it doesn't matter. It does, and baseball is starting to figure out how important those minor league ground ball rates really are.

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McLovin Veteran All-Star

McLovin

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There's really no uproar, just a few loud minority types that are just looking for something to bash. It's not like we just lost Arrieta or Erbe for nothing.

I'm disappointed because I think they could have made room for him. But I also think he'll be back before the end of ST.

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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I'm disappointed because I think they could have made room for him. But I also think he'll be back before the end of ST.

Yeah, but if you don't think a guy is ready for any role in 2010, and he doesn't have a high enough ceiling to project into anything more than a reliever/5th starter, you don't stick them on the 40-man when you know you will need to move guys off.

If they put him on the 40-man and then have to take him off, they then have to waive him where teams could claim him for nothing in return. If you look at this way, it's actually more protection to keep him off the 40-man and force a team to keep him in their 25-man roster all year.

I doubt the Orioles actually think more of Hughes, Tatum, Sarfate, and Bass in the long run, but honestly, unless Johnson can do something about his extreme flyball rates, it's not going to really matter.

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joe42 AAA

joe42

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I don't understand how it wasn't a mistake? We keep some scrubs for no reason and let a guy with potential get taken. No matter how good or not good you think Johnson will be he has 10 times more potential then some that were protected. Therefore, it was absolutely a mistake (even if he didn't get taken).

what scrubs?

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TiredofLosing20 Major Leaguer

TiredofLosing20

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If we had selected Johnson in the Rule5 people would be calling it a good move. Now that we risk losing him, people just make excuses why it's no big deal.

Your right we would be and I personally think the Giants made a good move here. But we would also not be all that surprised if we ended up returning a pitcher with 53 innings of AA experience didn't win a spot on the 25 man roster.

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ChaosLex Hangout Grand Counsel

ChaosLex

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There's really no uproar, just a few loud minority types that are just looking for something to bash. It's not like we just lost Arrieta or Erbe for nothing.

Am I one of those "few loud minority types?" :cool:

At the end of the day, I don't think it's a big deal. I just don't understand why we protected Florimon over Johnson, considering there's literally no way in hell the former sticks on anyone's 25-man roster this season.

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RandyM Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

RandyM

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Yeah, but if you don't think a guy is ready for any role in 2010, and he doesn't have a high enough ceiling to project into anything more than a reliever/5th starter, you don't stick them on the 40-man when you know you will need to move guys off.

If they put him on the 40-man and then have to take him off, they then have to waive him where teams could claim him for nothing in return. If you look at this way, it's actually more protection to keep him off the 40-man and force a team to keep him in their 25-man roster all year.

I doubt the Orioles actually think more of Hughes, Tatum, Sarfate, and Bass in the long run, but honestly, unless Johnson can do something about his extreme flyball rates, it's not going to really matter.

I think this is a big point that is getting neglected. Why protect him when you might have to expose him later on to everyone at a lower risk?

BTW he might have a better chance sticking with the Giants with their huge park, but a calculated gamble.

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olehippi Veteran All-Star

olehippi

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It's not even close to being "terrible." While I'll agree with you that I would have protected him over Hughes, he's far enough down the Orioles depth chart for pitchers that I didn't have a problem with him being unprotected.

When he gives up about ten home runs in the spring he'll be on the plane back to Baltimore so no worries. :D

My prediction: Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti will show Steve Johnson a "secret grip" on a baseball which will allow Johnson to add a devastating sinker to his pitching arsenal, thus transforming him into a go-to guy in the bullpen this season.

;)

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ChrisAF79 All-Star

ChrisAF79

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what scrubs?

Bass, Sarfate, Tatum, Hughes, etc...

For the record though, I'm not really upset about losing Johnson. I just don't quite understand why any of the guys listed above should have been protected over him, especially a guy like Bass or Hughes.

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McLovin Veteran All-Star

McLovin

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You say he's an extreme flyball pitcher and he's no big loss. Then why did we pick him up in the trade?

He could be good, but he's just not there yet. He's probably not ready to be on an ML roster for a full season. That's doesn't mean the O's don't want him. Jose Bautista turned out to be a replacement level 3B, but he wasn't that when the O's picked him.

The Giants are a good team to have taken him. They are an NL team, and they won't carry 8 bullpen arms for the sake of keeping him. He has no shot at the rotation. They have some established RH arms in the bullpen. They are a good team, and can't give away a roster spot. If the Royals or Indians picked him, I'd be more concerned. MacPhail is going to be saying "I told you so" in about three months.

I just can't imagine Steve Johnson becoming one of the 7 best relief pitchers on a playoff caliber team - *at this time*.

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