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Steve Johnson picked by Giants - Was it a mistake not to protect him?


ChaosLex

Was it a mistake not to protect Steve Johnson now?  

317 members have voted

  1. 1. Was it a mistake not to protect Steve Johnson now?

    • Yes
    • No, the Giants won't keep him. He'll be back with the O's soon
    • No, it's no big loss regardless of whether or not the Giants keep him

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My prediction: Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti will show Steve Johnson a "secret grip" on a baseball which will allow Johnson to add a devastating sinker to his pitching arsenal, thus transforming him into a go-to guy in the bullpen this season.

;)

His dad has been trying to teach him that for years and it hasn't taken, so I seriously doubt Righetti will have any better luck.

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I'm more annoyed than upset. Annoyed because it makes no sense to me. You say he's an extreme flyball pitcher and he's no big loss. Then why did we pick him up in the trade? I'm sure we could have gotten someone else with less talent but a groundball type pitcher. I haven't studied the history of groundball pitchers and flyball pitchers in the minors. You are probably right but are we ready to say that all flyball pitchers in the minors will not succeed in the majors or that Johnson couldn't improve his groundball rate. Brian Bass is a groundball pitcher. That doesn't make him good.

I guess I am a loud minority now. How do you define "loud" on a message board? lol

He was a throw-in in the Sherrill deal, he wasn't some main piece we went after.

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We all do not like the loss of Steve Johnson. People need to learn he had a pie-tossing throwing style which gives up a lot of flyballs which leads to homeruns in Boston, Yankee Stadium, and OPACY. People will ask, if that is the case why did we trade for him in the first place? The answer is Macphail did not think he would have to make a decision on him this year obviously. Was it a good move by the Giants? Maybe, but only because they have a much bigger park than OPACY.

I am a believer that we will get him back. But also a believer that we should have protected him over some other names

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It is a good point. However, when you've got Rhyne Hughes, Craig Tatum, and Brian Bass, who are all releaseable, IMO, it doesn't add up. We'd have to add about 3-4 players to our roster and this is assuming that none are through trades with anyone from our current roster going back to another team.

There are still moves to be made over the rest of the offseason, and getting rid of those expendable guys makes us expose someone we really don't want to later. Like Tony said, a lot of times it's more protective just to leave them off and ride it out. If the Giants are going to compete they can't carry him all season, if it was a basement dweller that didn't care about winning it's one thing. Especially an NL team who needs that extra bench space because of pitching switches.

At least one or two RP will be brought in from outside the org. so that's two spaces, then if Arrieta, Snyder or Bell make the team you've got 3 more to make, plus a backup C.

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OK, did you just basically say that Dave Johnson = Dave Righetti as a pitching coach?! :D

Not exactly...:D But DJ was trying to teach him a grip and pitch that he himself used, and talking to Steve last year he said the sinker just wouldn't stick for him. And DJ sees him a lot more than any pitching coach would.

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It was definitely a very risky move not to protect him, and I think an unnecessary risk given the other guys we protected on the 40-man.

However, if we get him back, then MacPhail wins. If the Giants keep him, then it was a bad move.

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Bass, Sarfate, Tatum, Hughes, etc...

For the record though, I'm not really upset about losing Johnson. I just don't quite understand why any of the guys listed above should have been protected over him, especially a guy like Bass or Hughes.

Bingo. I don't get people rationalizing this when those guys are around. To me, there is no argument. Is there a chance he comes back? Sure. Is there a good chance he isn't major league ready? Absolutely. Is he the best prospect? Nope. But is he more valuable than a number of people we did protect? Absolutely.

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And you think that I thought he was the main piece? He was obviously the secondary piece between he and Bell. I think you are downgrading him by calling him a throw in but whatever. Are you saying he has no value and no chance of ML success?

He's a 6th-7th inning RP as a ceiling. But neither one of us can persuade the other that they are right, so we'll have to wait and see.

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Again, I acknowledge this as a good point. Still, if Bell and Snyder come up, you have to figure a currrent 25 man player will be losing his spot on the 40 man. Someone like Wiggy would be getting waived or traded.

Yeah, at BEST case I think one of them could make the team out the gate, but I don't think both would happen. Either way, even if one of them makes it, like you said it could be a 25 guy that gets displaced not just a 40 guy. There are still some dominoes to fall.

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He's a 6th-7th inning RP as a ceiling. But neither one of us can persuade the other that they are right, so we'll have to wait and see.
That may be all he develops into, but that is definitely not his ceiling. Unless you are talking about maybe the ceiling on the first floor of a 2-3 story house.

His numbers in the minors have been very good, while he may not have top-of-the-rotation stuff, he's not some guy you just look at and all you think is maybe a fringe BP guy at the absolute most.

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Yeah, but if you don't think a guy is ready for any role in 2010, and he doesn't have a high enough ceiling to project into anything more than a reliever/5th starter, you don't stick them on the 40-man when you know you will need to move guys off.

If they put him on the 40-man and then have to teams could claim him for nothing in return. If youtake him off, they then have to waive him where look at this way, it's actually more protection to keep him off the 40-man and force a team to keep him in their 25-man roster all year.

I doubt the Orioles actually think more of Hughes, Tatum, Sarfate, and Bass in the long run, but honestly, unless Johnson can do something about his extreme flyball rates, it's not going to really matter.

I believe this is the critical point in all this. If McPhail thought that Johnson could not stick with a club for the whole year AND he felt that he might possibly have to waive him to make room for an aquisition before the season started, the O's would lose him for nothing. This maneuvor may be the best way to retain Steve Johnson's services plus the O's have the likely possibility of making 25 Gs on the deal. A lot of the guys the O's protected over SJ will not be on the 40 man come spring training and may be claimed and not have to be put on the 40 man roster of the claiming team as the O's make aquisitions.

This rule-5 stuff sure is arcane to say the least.:confused:

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I am a little sad to lose Johnson at this time, but in reality it tells us that the organization is now deep enough that it is tough to define our 40 man roster. I think that AM and his staff probably feel that Steve is not ready to stay on any MLB team for a full season and the gamble may well pay off. Does anyone see him making the pitching rich Giants and if he does does anyone see him staying all year. The Orioles may well get another shot at him.

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Johnson will make a nice MR for SF this season. Despite his flyball ratio, he doesn't give up a ton of dingers and he misses a lot of bats. And his flyball proneness won't be much of an issue in the NL West with 3 pitcher's parks in AT&T, PETCO and Chavez Ravine.

I was pretty impressed with him when I saw him at Fenway.

The Orioles just lost a valuable future reliever IMO.

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