Why not Holliday?

[bmorebirds_24]

If you can't see the difference here, I am not sure what to tell you.

You're telling me RIGHT NOW Felix Pie is an above average outfielder? Child please! I never said he couldn't be! My point is to the thread, Holliday is better then Pie, Scott, and Nolan. He is a better LF then all of them, so why not bring him in?

[Old#5fan]

Don't think of him as an OFer, rather a RH #4 hitter that is good defensively at his position.

Would you give a RH #4 hitter of his caliber that was good defensively 18+ million per season regardless of position?

And by signing him, you free up one or two of those OFers for a deal.

That is a good point. We could probably get a nice young shortstop prospect for either Markakis or Jones and still have a very potent outfield of Pie, Reimold, Holliday. This team would be set at all positions then pretty much except first base.

[Hank Scorpio]

Alrighty, let's not turn this thing into a Pie thread. We've had plenty of those.

I realize we have four OFers, and five if you count Luke Scott.

However, if you sign Holliday, that gives you the opportunity to trade one or two of Reimold, Scott, Pie or even Jones to upgrade at another position.

The Orioles can get creative here, as they can't find that RH hitting 1B man, but they can find a RH #4 hitter, and then they can use the depth that they've acquired to go ahead and trade for a 1st baseman that they wouldn't have been able to get because the players they now have to trade weren't orginally expendable.

That's one way to do it. Sounds more like a way to marginally upgrade your offense while making your defense marginally worse and paying someone a boatload of money accordingly.

He's not as good as Pie in the outfield, regardless how good he is.

Another problem is, Matt Holliday most likely doesn't want to play on a team that lost 98 games last year.

[Dipper9]

Alrighty, let's not turn this thing into a Pie thread. We've had plenty of those.

I realize we have four OFers, and five if you count Luke Scott.

However, if you sign Holliday, that gives you the opportunity to trade one or two of Reimold, Scott, Pie or even Jones to upgrade at another position.

The Orioles can get creative here, as they can't find that RH hitting 1B man, but they can find a RH #4 hitter, and then they can use the depth that they've acquired to go ahead and trade for a 1st baseman that they wouldn't have been able to get because the players they now have to trade weren't orginally expendable.

I'm getting a Migraine.

Instead of all this hocus pocus ifs and buts, how about we let MacPhail focus on aquiring the positions we do NEED, namely first base and shortstop, with a little bit of third base thrown on the side, and a Bedard as the cherry on top. We are NOT going to be in the Holliday or Bay sweepstakes, so lets just move on.

[Tony-OH]

I don't think we need another one.

RF: Markakis

CF: Pie

LF: Jones

DH: Reimold

Trade Scott.

One thing to remember is that Pie does not hit lefties well (.623 OPS last year and .448 OPS over a career) and has never hit lefties well. Until he can show he can hit lefties effectively, I'm not sure we can start putting him out there as a starter every day. I see Pie is a 375-425 at bat guy at best because I see him as a platoon guy.

Now, could he start in center field against righties with Jones moving to left, sure, but I don't know if the Orioles are going to be willing to make Jones play two different positions especially coming off of a "gold glove" year.

For me, Pie has more value to us as trade bait since I think he profiles in center much better than left.

That said, if you can move Pie for a power hitting corner infielder, sign Bay or Holliday for left, I think the team is improved. However, I don't see Bay of Holiday coming here.

[Hank Scorpio]

You're telling me RIGHT NOW Felix Pie is an above average outfielder? Child please! I never said he couldn't be! My point is to the thread, Holliday is better then Pie, Scott, and Nolan. He is a better LF then all of them, so why not bring him in?

Because the aggregate of their three salaries aren't half of what you'll have to pay Holliday, and there is a chance Reimold can give you 85% of Holliday's production for peanuts?

[Hank Scorpio]

One thing to remember is that Pie does not hit lefties well (.623 OPS last year and .448 OPS over a career) and has never hit lefties well. Until he can show he can hit lefties effectively, I'm not sure we can start putting him out there as a starter every day. I see Pie is a 375-425 at bat guy at best because I see him as a platoon guy.

Now, could he start in center field against righties with Jones moving to left, sure, but I don't know if the Orioles are going to be willing to make Jones play two different positions especially coming off of a "gold glove" year.

For me, Pie has more value to us as trade bait since I think he profiles in center much better than left.

I agree that this is the more likely scenario. It's obvious that the Orioles are committed to Jones as the starting centerfielder, but I would contend that Pie is better defensively.

Offensively, meh. Curtis Granderson can't hit lefties either and he's being lauded as the second coming of Bernie Williams in NY.

But I do understand the point, I want to make that clear.

[NATTYBO's]

I agree - If the O's really wanted to contend they would sign Holliday to play LF and then package reimhold/scott/tilman/hernandez tohether to get Adrian Gonzales from the Padre's. Instead of wasting more money on stop gaps

[Dipper9]

You're telling me RIGHT NOW Felix Pie is an above average outfielder? Child please! I never said he couldn't be! My point is to the thread, Holliday is better then Pie, Scott, and Nolan. He is a better LF then all of them, so why not bring him in?

Because while he may be better now, he is older and costs at least $90 million to start the talks. And truth be told, he is only marginally better than our current outfielders. If you are going to spend the money we are talking here, you do it for a positon of NEED, not a position of depth.

[Sports Guy]

One thing to remember is that Pie does not hit lefties well (.623 OPS last year and .448 OPS over a career) and has never hit lefties well. Until he can show he can hit lefties effectively, I'm not sure we can start putting him out there as a starter every day. I see Pie is a 375-425 at bat guy at best because I see him as a platoon guy.

Now, could he start in center field against righties with Jones moving to left, sure, but I don't know if the Orioles are going to be willing to make Jones play two different positions especially coming off of a "gold glove" year.

For me, Pie has more value to us as trade bait since I think he profiles in center much better than left.

Pie in left against righties and 20-30% of lefties.

Reimold DH most of the time and plays LF against most lefties and spells Jones and Nick on days off in the OF and of course, injuries.

Pie looked much better vs lefties as the year went on, so give him more of a chance against them this year and see if he continues to improve.

Even if he doesn't improve against lefties but gets 400+ at bats, he should be a 2-3 win player this year and he could still be trade bait...Right now, his value isn't likely that high, so trading him wouldn't be good for us.

[JTrea81]

That's one way to do it. Sounds more like a way to marginally upgrade your offense while making your defense worse and paying someone a boatload of money accordingly.

Another problem is, Matt Holliday most likely doesn't want to play on a team that lost 98 games last year.

Matt Holliday has said he has no preference IIRC, I believe he's just looking for whoever gives him the most $, as a typical Boras client does.

I'm not quite sure how taking Reimold out of LF and putting Holliday there makes the defense worse.

And instead of paying 20 million per season for a 1B man, you could go get a Joey Votto type and pay him less. You'd shift that cost to Holliday.

Or you could find a LT solution at SS or 3B.

[Mike B]

If by "no market", you mean there have been a shortage of stories on GoofyTradeRumors.com, then I agree...

Well said Shack!! Boras is waiting for the first offer to come in so he can shop it to the big spenders. The Orioles and AM are never going to make the first offer, because no one, especially Boras is going to take the first offer from a team like the Orioles.

As for Holliday, Boras IMO will wait for Bay to sign, then he will get busy. I think the Red Sox and the Yankees battle over Holliday especially if Bay goes to the Angels or somewhere else.

[Dipper9]

Matt Holliday has said he has no preference IIRC, I believe he's just looking for whoever gives him the most $, as a typical Boras client does.

I'm not quite sure how taking Reimold out of LF and putting Holliday there makes the defense worse.

And instead of paying 20 million per season for a 1B man, you could go get a Joey Votto type and pay him less. You'd shift that cost to Holliday.

Or you could find a LT solution at SS or 3B.

So lets say hypothetically we make that deal and sign Holliday for whatever money. Now we sit with 6 outfielders, no third baseman, no first baseman, no closer, and still wanting pitching depth. The value of our trade bait, whether it be Scott, Pie, or whomever, takes a BIG hit (ala Soriano in Atlanta) because teams know we HAVE to shed some of the outfield depth. Its just not a smart way to go. You fill positions of need. Period.

[TiredofLosing20]

Because the aggregate of their three salaries aren't half of what you'll have to pay Holliday, and there is a chance Reimold can give you 85% of Holliday's production for peanuts?

Ding Ding Ding.. We have a winner.

[emmett16]

Well, even if you choose to take away Pie, we still have 3 others.

....and Scott.