Does AM and Ownership Have the Pulse of the Fans?

[Old#5fan]

Really? Vlad would pacify you? I mean look I am not against signing FAs and Vlad for one year certainly would not be "wrong" per se. It also wouldn't run counter to a rebuild. But signing Vlad doesn't win us a Wildcard or a division and it appears that is in decline so anything more than a year would be ridiculous.

What I am against is giving crazy money for 5 years to the likes of Lackey, Holliday, Bay, Figgins et al. at this point in time.

EDIT - For the record we wouldn't be acquiring his HOF bat it would be his declining not so HOF bat.

For now, I think signing Vlad would help fill a glaring hole in the middle of the lineup with a veteran whose bat is still feared, especially late in a tight game. The Orioles sorely lack that right now and even though he is not a long term solution it would help the current youngsters by taking some pressure off them and allow them to develop more easily.

[Bradysburns]

I think you are going to be disappointed, It has been my belief that Bay, Holliday, Lackey etc. represent the primary market. We are not at the point where we are going to be involved in that. There will be a secondary market which I believe will consist of players like Jim Thome, Troy Glaus, Erik Bedard, Escobar, Blalock and maybe even a guy like Ben Sheets. That market will begin to play later in this month and through out January. That IMO is where the Orioles will shop. As far as whether AM and ownership have the pulse of the fan base. Who knows, history seems to say no but I am sure AM cares about what we think but IMO he will not deviate from the plan because of it. Remember the old adage "those executives who listen to the fans are soon to become one".

Yesterday was disappointing in the fact that it is the same teams who continue to shop at the high end store but not surprising that we were not involved. Lackey was not coming here for 85 or 95 million. For us to land him, instead of the Red Sox, we were going to have to top the 20 million per mark to have a chance. We are not going to do that.

Whoa, whoa there big fellah. The Yankees are officially sniffing around Sheets right now. Not so fast, Orioles! The Yankees got a swingman slot to fill, and Sheets might work out. If not, they'll just DFA him - no big woop. If you're thinking about Duchsherer, just let the Yankees to ahead and give him a once over first. They have the "right of first refusal" for every even vaguely interesting free agent pitcher on the market.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Bedard or any of these other 2nd-tier guys wind up mopping up at the bottom of the MFY's rotation or even in their bullpen. That's the way the cookie seems to be crumbling. Very sad.

[Bradysburns]

For now, I think signing Vlad would help fill a glaring hole in the middle of the lineup with a veteran whose bat is still feared, especially late in a tight game. The Orioles sorely lack that right now and even though he is not a long term solution it would help the current youngsters by taking some pressure off them and allow them to develop more easily.

There's something to be said for fielding a respectable team every year - even if you kinda know you're not going to win the division. We should never settle - as fans or a franchise IMO - for anything less than an acceptable level of excellence. Putting a sub-70-win team on the field is never okay, even if it might have been necessary last year (and, um, the year before).

[Arthur_Bryant]

Living in the Kansas City media market, I have seen for years what happens when an organization uses "the pulse of the fans" as a guide for making player personnel decisions. It's a freakin' mess. Which is not a surprise, since few fans have any clue about long term franchise planning.

For that matter, most on this forum have seen it too. It's the Orioles through the first six or seven years of this decade, signing motley free agents, making moves completely ad hoc based on the needs of the coming season, without any coherent long term plan. Then comes the annual spectacle, usually starting around this time of year, of trying to convince fans that this season is going to be different. If you can't dazzle 'em with greatness, baffle 'em with bull*****.

The sad part is that even this cynical marketing approach is a short term affair. After a while most people catch on that something's rotten.

I don't want to see the Orioles sell season tickets that way any more. I want to see them filling the stadium by assembling a great core of young players who stay together for five or six years, up there in the conversation of teams to watch every year. I would say that 99 per cent of fans in the stands and even many here don't have the first idea how to pull that off.

So please, AM-- no pulse-taking.

[MemorialStadKid]

There's something to be said for fielding a respectable team every year - even if you kinda know you're not going to win the division. We should never settle - as fans or a franchise IMO - for anything less than an acceptable level of excellence. Putting a sub-70-win team on the field is never okay, even if it might have been necessary last year (and, um, the year before).

Have you SEEN these threads around here? People are basically arguing against improving the team by making quality free agent signings.

I've seen a lot of insanity with baseball fans in my life, but I can't believe that so many people on the OH are making the argument that we need to continue to be "patient" while other teams just get better.

How can any fan of the Orioles be happy with them losing right out of the gate in 2010? And when you look at the first half of the 2010 schedule, losing is exactly what we'll be doing if we stick with who we currently have on the team.

This is amazing.

MSK

[TiredofLosing20]

Have you SEEN these threads around here? People are basically arguing against improving the team by making quality free agent signings.

I've seen a lot of insanity with baseball fans in my life, but I can't believe that so many people on the OH are making the argument that we need to continue to be "patient" while other teams just get better.

How can any fan of the Orioles be happy with them losing right out of the gate in 2010? And when you look at the first half of the 2010 schedule, losing is exactly what we'll be doing if we stick with who we currently have on the team.

This is amazing.

MSK

What is amazing is your use of hyperbole and ranting to demonstrate your complete lack of comprehension of the arguments of those who disagree with you.

By the way. I think many of us are still waiting for the posts you promised stating that there are "many" posters who do not think we need to make "any" acquisitions.

[Florida_Osfan]

You make a lot of sense, but sadly, there are those here that believe its 1968 and the Yankees and Red Sox don't exist. They never said this, but their attitude is based on the misguided notion that our young talent will all magically come together to produce winning seasons without spending any money on quality free agents.

There are like 4 other threads going on where people keep pretending that the Orioles are broke and have no money, and therefore we can't spend any.

They keep saying that spending money doesn't equal winning but the Yankees and Red Sox spend money all the time (and the Orioles DO have money to spend between Angelos' fortune, revenue sharing, and other ancillary streams, even Forbes Magazine rates us as one of the most profitable franchises in MLB) to improve, yet there is this ridiculous attitude that we don't need to do anything, just sit pat while our rivals reload for another run at the top.

At the rate we're going, we won't see a winning squad until around 2016 when Jeter and Arod will be much older or gone.

We still need 1B, 3B, and another quality staring pitcher before we can begin to assume we will be anywhere but last place. This "lets tank 2010 so we can see how our boys develop and figure out our needs then" is just plain stupid. WE KNOW WHAT our needs are at this time and its like certain fans here are okay with us losing another season just so this can happen again next off season.

All I see on this board are ridiculous excuses why we SHOULDN'T improve (we "can't compete" financially with the Big Two, you only need homegrown talent to win, you don't spend X dollars on a pitcher/impact bat/etc.) meanwhile the Yankees and Red Sox do whatever is necessary whenever its necessary.

To say that these teams "don't improve, they just maintain a level of success" is one of the dumbest arguments in the history of this board. Maintaining success IS a level of improvement if you're winning 85-100 games a season for almost a decade.

What the Orioles have done is maintain a below-average standard of operation for a decade and we have fans who have bought into the lack of aggression in the FA market, bad scouting which leads to bad contracts for mediocre free agents (usually the ones left behind after the Yankees and Red Sox get the elite guys in their quest to not improve) and now folks are still clamoring for more patience and waiting.

When is enough enough? Seriously? Some fools out there actually said "after 11 years of losing, what's another season if we're getting better?"

Another season of losing means more lost fans, lost revenue, and the reputation of the franchise takes another hit on the long, slippery slope of irrelevance.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

MSK

You need to lay off the pretentious, condescending attitude. That much I do understand. Asking rhetorical questions of "why is this so difficult to understand?" and repackaging your theories of how to build a team ad nauseum is the reason so many people react negatively to your posts. And frankly, you're not adding to any baseball discussion. You're just mouthing cloaked jabs at those who disagree with your thinking. How is this any more than trolling?

And the hyperbole from you, Old_Fan, and Trea is just crazy. There is no slippery slope, and far more teams have followed AMac's plan the Rays in the past 15 years: the NYY, Red Sox, Rays, Twins, As, Dodgers, and Marlins have all done this to varying degrees with huge success. That, unlike many other things, is not difficult to understand. They, too, had the pulse of the fan. They just used foward thinking in bringing out a team the fans could easily cheer for. Why can't the O's accomplish this? Oh, I see, it's different for us. Not really. It's a plan, a plan that is in place, a plan that, for once, has a specific goal in mind: to rebuild for long-term winning. Adding the FA, when it's appropriate, will work.

I, for one, would love to add FA and see this team in the playoffs again. And I have no doubt that any GM, owner, or manager, that doesn't feel the same wouldn't be in the sport. So, yes, I think they have the pulse of the fan. They're just not impatient with their own ideas. I'm for letting us see what we have in Snyder, Bell, Matusz, Tillman, and Bergy before we panic and unload them. Something I'm sure the FO is thinking, or at least similarly, as well.

[Great 2BA FL Gator]

They have to make changes and soon. The twelve years of losing have taken a toll and there are a lot of fans who buy tickets who walked away from OP late in the season shaking their heads saying...."I've had enough." How does AM and PA watch from their suite or on TV and not get sick or mad? Please explain this? If I owned this team I would say......"give me a winner of find me a buyer."

It cannot continue. I repeat......it cannot continue. Stop and think for a minute. Would you pay thousands of dollars every year to watch your team lose? I don't think you would. Right now I plan to renew my 29 game plan but......! The season ticket holders don't need to buy plans. They can just go online and buy whenever they want and get seats anywhere in the park. They won't have to worry about giving their tickets away to games they can't attend or going to the scalp free zone and getting $20 total for 2 tickets worth $48 a piece. That's a big hit.

AM cannot take any vacations right now. He should be sleeping in the warehouse trying to improve this team. There are quite a few of us who would like to be AM for two weeks who believe they could make this team a winner. Okay.....AM can go home around 8 or 9 PM like I do a few days a week on my job. It's time for him to deliver. This will be the off season that makes or breaks him as a GM in Baltimore.

Dude, we are still in rebuilding.. That's just the truth in the matter. To "speed up" the process would/could significantly hurt our long term success. And no, I hope AM is not looking at fan reaction. He's gotta do what he knows is best.. We want to win for multiple years right? AM is taking us in that direction. Yes fans may leave short term as the losing continues for a little while more, but I promise you they or someone else will buy up those tickets as soon as we become a winner again..

[RShack]

You make a lot of sense, but sadly, there are those here that believe its 1968 and the Yankees and Red Sox don't exist. They never said this, but their attitude is based on the misguided notion that our young talent will all magically come together to produce winning seasons without spending any money on quality free agents.

There are like 4 other threads going on where people keep pretending that the Orioles are broke and have no money, and therefore we can't spend any.

Hey, you changed your sig... Where's the quote from me about your bizarre-claims-per-post ratio? ;-)

[RShack]

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[Old#5fan]

Dude, we are still in rebuilding.. That's just the truth in the matter. To "speed up" the process would/could significantly hurt our long term success. And no, I hope AM is not looking at fan reaction. He's gotta do what he knows is best.. We want to win for multiple years right? AM is taking us in that direction. Yes fans may leave short term as the losing continues for a little while more, but I promise you they or someone else will buy up those tickets as soon as we become a winner again..

The problem is that this Orioles team is so lopsidedly weak when compared to the top three teams in their division right now they are just going to continue to be the perpetual whipping boys of the division. If nothing else, sign some really great aging veteran pitchers/hitters like a Pedro Martinez/Vlad to give these young guys some hope and at the same time at least give the MFing Yankees and Red Sox a need to bring their A game when they play the Orioles. Right now when we play these teams they probably view it no differently than facing their Triple A squads!

[TiredofLosing20]

The problem is that this Orioles team is so lopsidedly weak when compared to the top three teams in their division right now they are just going to continue to be the perpetual whipping boys of the division. If nothing else, sign some really great aging veteran pitchers/hitters like a Pedro Martinez/Vlad to give these young guys some hope and at the same time at least give the MFing Yankees and Red Sox a need to bring their A game when they play the Orioles. Right now when we play these teams they probably view it no differently than facing their Triple A squads!

The other thing you need to consider in regards to the Pedro/Vlad type of passifier is whether or not they are actually interested in coming to play for us. Not saying they wouldn't given enough money but how will you have to overpay and what value are you actually receiving.

[Roll Tide]

The off season has been interesting so far with a few rumors and the acquisition of Kevin Millwood to help our pitching staff. AM is moving at about 20 MPH. It's time for him to put his foot to the accelerator. Let's go!

Andy says we need a 1B, 3B, relief help, a closer and a cleanup hitter with power. We all kinow that. Everyone in baseball knows that. Who will be "the replacements?"

Season ticket renewals are coming soon. Would you renew if you have a season ticket plan?

Our payroll is down to about $30 million and it's been said the Orioles will spend between $40 and $45 million for new players. Will the Orioles step up to the plate and deliver enough this off season to improve and possibly create fan interest?

If you were a billionaire owner and proud of your city would you spend enough money to try to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox? I think the obvious answer is "YES." Would you try to find ways to beat them? Of course! Do we need a $100 million dollar payroll? It would be nice but not realistic. How about a $80 million dollar payroll? PA can afford it. So what are we waiting for?

AM was wise in passing on Lackey. He is not worth $17 million per year. Matusz amd Millwood could win as many games as he will this season. The Red Sox will miss Bay's power and RBI'S this season. It's nice to have pitching but you still have to score runs. Cameron over Bay? What?

What do we need to do?

Get another veteran starter? Josh Johnson, Jason Marquiz or Javier Vasquez? I'm okay with all of these pitchers with a preference for Johnson, Vasquez and Marquiz in that order.

3B? I like Kouzmanoff or Gordon if the price is right or even Tejada for a year or two. Tejada at 3B could be interesting. I think he could make the change from SS.

Closer? Mike Gonzalez..He's still out there I think and he would be the best guy for us.

1B? I would go hard for Jason Bay who has played 1B before with the Pirates. He can play 1B, LF and DH for us and bat 4th.

What would surprise everyone? A blockbuster trade for Hanley Ramirez and Josh Johnson. We can pull off this type of trade and should IMO.

If AM and ownership go cheap this winter they will be shocked at the empty seats at OP this coming season. I hope they have the pulse of the fans and don't screw up this off season. We need to make some big and bold moves and soon. As AM said....wins are important now and we need to do what it takes to compete.

Sadly I dont believe AM or Sneaky Pete care that much about this. Angelos has found money from MASN that you & I arent supposed to count as its MASN profits .... Not O's profits.

[ChaosLex]

I need a drink.

[Hank Scorpio]

Living in the Kansas City media market, I have seen for years what happens when an organization uses "the pulse of the fans" as a guide for making player personnel decisions. It's a freakin' mess. Which is not a surprise, since few fans have any clue about long term franchise planning.

For that matter, most on this forum have seen it too. It's the Orioles through the first six or seven years of this decade, signing motley free agents, making moves completely ad hoc based on the needs of the coming season, without any coherent long term plan. Then comes the annual spectacle, usually starting around this time of year, of trying to convince fans that this season is going to be different. If you can't dazzle 'em with greatness, baffle 'em with bull*****.

The sad part is that even this cynical marketing approach is a short term affair. After a while most people catch on that something's rotten.

I don't want to see the Orioles sell season tickets that way any more. I want to see them filling the stadium by assembling a great core of young players who stay together for five or six years, up there in the conversation of teams to watch every year. I would say that 99 per cent of fans in the stands and even many here don't have the first idea how to pull that off.

So please, AM-- no pulse-taking.

Well stated.