Red Sox Working Hard for A-Gon. Why Not Us?

[waroriole]

First off, nice bait, and I will bite.

When that challenge was thrown down, I was just starting to work three jobs. I am still working three jobs. I was gone from OH for about a week and a half and I totally forgot about this argument (I do have a life folks), and then when I saw the Red Sox grab Lackey I got back on here.

No bait intended, just calling it like I see it.

You also said that your "project" was about half-way finished earlier, so why don't you just show us what you have instead of making up strawmen to argue with.

[O's Fan From PA]

They are not signing Agon they are trading for him and then the would be giving up Ellsbury supposed in the trade. So you say you are not makeing things up but keep saying they are signing agon when the are trading for him so there is a instance were you are makeing things up.

First off, nice bait, and I will bite.

When that challenge was thrown down, I was just starting to work three jobs. I am still working three jobs. I was gone from OH for about a week and a half and I totally forgot about this argument (I do have a life folks), and then when I saw the Red Sox grab Lackey I got back on here.

I will finish with the quotes, but do I really need to when folks are proving what I said to begin with?

For all intents and purposes, the argument is that WE SHOULD DO NOTHING and just let our guys develop and sign some typical token low-cost, low-risk, table scrap stopgap with little upside (i.e. Eaton, Wigginton) while the Yankees and Red Sox reload for a run at the gold.

If you haven't noticed, Boston picked up John Lackey and Mike Cameron and are on the verge of signing A-Gonzales, a guy who is a legitimate batting threat to a team with Youklis, Pedroia, Martinez, and Ortiz -- with Ellsbury doing well too!

We signed Kevin Millwood.

Kevin Millwood.

If that isn't the definition of "doing nothing" I don't know what is. Sure, I guess we DID SOMETHING.

But there is a difference between flying a kite and launching the space shuttle.

Stop trying to make it seem like I am making things up when the majority of the anti-signing-premium-free-agents posts are basically saying that should make no legitimate splash moves to improve the team and we should continue to make these piecemeal adjustments until we are "ready."

MSK

[tom smith]

The above is the right answer. Additionally, as good as Gonzalez is, the Red Sox will have to give up a ton of young talent to get him, which may help the O's when we are truly able to compete in 2011/2012. The Sox are making moves to win the WS now (e.g., signing 33-year old Lackey, contemplating giving several good young players for AGon), we aren't going to be in that position for a couple more years. If they want to "go all in" now and trade 3 or 4 good, young players for one player, so be it. They are in position to do that now, we are not. Plus, that can only help us down the road when we can truly challenge them.

No it won't help the O's, Boston will always buy the players it needs which is way the O's should step up and try to make a deal.

[Absltgreek]

Tillman is a 5th starter right now in this rotation, so we'd have to find a 5th starter. That isn't too hard to find.

By 2011, Britton will be ready to step into the Orioles rotation IMO.

This is the most illogical statement i've ever read from you. Will he always be a "5th starter", if anything this year he begins to step up to the #1/#2 potential he has.

People need to think about the Bedard trade again. Remember how happy everyone was at the trade Look at what we got, AND look where Bedard is today. A mega trade for AGon would be the exact opposite of that. That's all i'm saying...

[bird watcher]

Well, I don't disagree with this post.

It does suck but the argument can be made that we are actually better off with the Red Sox getting AGon and getting rid of Buchholz and whatever 3-4 other prospects will be in the deal....If AGon goes back to being the 3-4 WAR player he has been his whole career up until last year, they really wouldn't have improved the team all that much.

I feel like this was said for years about the yankees. They would trade their farm for studs and we kept saying "they are getting old" "they will fall off soon" etc.

That didn't happen either.

I would agree with your post in a bubble but when you throw in the acquisition of Lackey it really isn't true. They Actually end up trading Buchholz and whatever 3-4 others to get Lackey and Agon. They do improve.

They are doing what you always champion. Trade AND Sign. Trade for what you can't buy and then Buy what you need- to replace what you traded.

This will never stop and unless we can play that game we will not be able to compete.

I do agree that Mcab may be a better target though. (If he is available)

[JTrea81]

Oh right I forgot that Tillman is only going to be a #5 starter for the rest of his career. Where does your TOR starter to replace Tillman come from? FA? Spending big bucks? Also, Britton will surely have the rookie struggles that you talk about all the time won't he? Or does that only apply to hitters when it suits your argument?

Matusz will become the TOR eventually, with Guthrie, Bergesen and Britton in there, maybe Bedard or a FA starter.

Britton had an insane 3.49 GO/AO ratio in the minors last season with only 6 HR given up in 140 IP. I don't expect him to give up the dingers like Tillman did.

[tom smith]

First off, nice bait, and I will bite.

When that challenge was thrown down, I was just starting to work three jobs. I am still working three jobs. I was gone from OH for about a week and a half and I totally forgot about this argument (I do have a life folks), and then when I saw the Red Sox grab Lackey I got back on here.

I will finish with the quotes, but do I really need to when folks are proving what I said to begin with?

For all intents and purposes, the argument is that WE SHOULD DO NOTHING and just let our guys develop and sign some typical token low-cost, low-risk, table scrap stopgap with little upside (i.e. Eaton, Wigginton) while the Yankees and Red Sox reload for a run at the gold.

If you haven't noticed, Boston picked up John Lackey and Mike Cameron and are on the verge of signing A-Gonzales, a guy who is a legitimate batting threat to a team with Youklis, Pedroia, Martinez, and Ortiz -- with Ellsbury doing well too!

We signed Kevin Millwood.

Kevin Millwood.

If that isn't the definition of "doing nothing" I don't know what is. Sure, I guess we DID SOMETHING.

But there is a difference between flying a kite and launching the space shuttle.

Stop trying to make it seem like I am making things up when the majority of the anti-signing-premium-free-agents posts are basically saying that should make no legitimate splash moves to improve the team and we should continue to make these piecemeal adjustments until we are "ready."

MSK

Could not of said it any better.

[Sports Guy]

Money they can afford and players that are easily replaceable for them.

Meanwhile, the bar is raised even higher for the Orioles to get to the playoffs.

No its not..Boston is still going to be the 87-98 win team we all know they can be...This doesn't change anything.

[Mackus]

Giving up Tillman, Arrieta, Pie, and Snyder or something like that for the next two years of Gonzalez, because he's not signing an extension, would be stupid. Anybody who wants to do that is braindead.

[waroriole]

Could not of said it any better.

That's probably true when considering your spelling error in this sentence.

[SilentJames]

Simple, the REd Sox have a much deeper farm system then we do and can easily take the hit of losing 3-4 prospects and still keep rolling.

For the Orioles to do that the risk is too high in relation to the perceived reward. We are not going to realistically compete for the AL East title next year, A-Gon is not "THE missing piece" he is one of MANY missing pieces and trading for him would leaves us with more holes to fill.

[Jdan14]

The Padres are looking for pitching, a CFer and a catcher.

Tillman, Pie, Joseph along with Arrieta and Snyder might be enough to land him IMO.

The Padres get 4 ML ready players instead of only 2 or 3 from the Red Sox

The Orioles keep Britton, Matusz, Erbe and Bell so they don't empty out the system.

That's crazy. Bedard in reverse but worse. I don't think any GM would make that deal coming from our side.

And not to mention the fact he is going to test FA waters so why give up those 5 for two years at AGon. Sweet we have a power hitting 1b for 2 years. We'll still lose 85-90 games and lose him to the Yankees/RedSox.

[Mackus]

No bait intended, just calling it like I see it.

You also said that your "project" was about half-way finished earlier, so why don't you just show us what you have instead of making up strawmen to argue with.

Because he has nothing to show us because the argument he is saying exist do not.

He's quickly becoming my least favorite poster on this site, not sure why I haven't added him to ignore yet.

[Sports Guy]

I feel like this was said for years about the yankees. They would trade their farm for studs and we kept saying "they are getting old" "they will fall off soon" etc.

That didn't happen either.

I would agree with your post in a bubble but when you throw in the acquisition of Lackey it really isn't true. They Actually end up trading Buchholz and whatever 3-4 others to get Lackey and Agon. They do improve.

They are doing what you always champion. Trade AND Sign. Trade for what you can't buy and then Buy what you need- to replace what you traded.

This will never stop and unless we can play that game we will not be able to compete.

I do agree that Mcab may be a better target though. (If he is available)

Look, Boston and NY are always going to be 85-100 win teams...That's just how it is.

As Mweb said the other day..They just make moves to attempt to sustain their success...They really don't get better.

[MemorialStadKid]

At the bottom of the Red Sox article:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/red-sox-take-aim-at-adrian-gonzalez

The Red Sox then could turn their attention to signing right-hander Josh Beckett to a long-term extension -- and retain the financial flexibility to pursue other free agents in next year’s deep market.

So, I will relent because you folks don't understand what I am saying here, but we really need to look at what this article is saying.

The Red Sox won't back down next off season either. They will be out there in full force signing guys away while you folks keep making the argument that "we're not ready yet."

"Wait another year" is the mantra around here. It makes me wonder when you think we'll be ready to actually DO something to improve and win some games. I don't like losing and I don't like the loser mentality that infests this fan base.

Well, not the whole fan base, just a select group of people who've become accustomed to losing to such a degree that they make strong arguments against the team building themselves up to become a winner.

The patience argument works in the AL West or the NL Central. We don't have much more time to salvage this team's loser reputation before the damage is irreversible in the eyes of Baltimore sports fans.

We seem to forget that the majority of Baltimore Orioles fans don't spend time on the OH, they simply don't go to games anymore. They don't follow the team. I'm not talking about two or three hundred people, but thousands and potentially millions of fans who have been turned off or simply walked away forever.

Many of you don't seem to understand what I'm saying, preferring to remain in a box and assume that only your fan interest counts. A lot of people in the Baltimore area want to cheer for the team, I know because I speak to many of them all the time, but each season, their anticipation is rewarded by things like the Tex signing, or Tejada's legitimate complaints about losing, or Mora pissed about playing time or a 4th/5th place finish for the majority of the decade.

How does not wanting this awful, disgusting situation to continue make me wrong? I am an Orioles fan. I was there in 1983 in Memorial Stadium for one of the WS games (hence my screen nick) and I was there in spirit in 1996 and 97 in college in New York fighting tooth and nail with Yankees fans. I lived in NYC from 2002-2008 and went to many many games to watch the Orioles and yelled back at the Bleacher Creatures who were shocked to see a guy stand up for himself like I did in the midst of all that hostility.

I bleed orange just like most people here and I am tired of all the excuses for losing. And that's what they boil down to be -- excuses for losing.

Lord almighty, why is it bad to want to see your team WIN?!?!?!?!?