Addressing the Yankees' Unfair Advantage: Which is more likely?

[mweb]

There was plenty of interest in building a stadium to try and get a team 4-5 years ago which would have been at the Meadowlands. I don't think MLB was willing to pick a fight with the Yankees who voiced their disapproval of such an option.

And now the economy is much worse and tons of money was just spent on a football stadium.

I'm not saying it's impossible, or even unlikely.

However, the way some talk about this, it's as if there are no obstacles at all assuming MLB let it happen. That's far from the case.

[Jagwar]

As I've said many times, I don't think putting another team in NYC will do much good for reasons already stated. I also don't see a demand for such a team, so good luck making it happen.

The Yankees and Mets support a combined payroll pushing $400 million. Demand is clearly there, at least based on the revenue base relative to other markets.

[Lucky Jim]

The Yankees and Mets support a combined payroll pushing $400 million. Demand is clearly there, at least based on the revenue base relative to other markets.

Demand for the Yankees and Mets. What makes anyone think a third team is a viable substitute good?

I'd argue that of all the teams in baseball, these two would be among the last for which existed any substitute goods.

[geschinger]

And now the economy is much worse and tons of money was just spent on a football stadium.

I'm not saying it's impossible, or even unlikely.

However, the way some talk about this, it's as if there are no obstacles at all assuming MLB let it happen. That's far from the case.

Sure there would be obstacles and it would take deep pockets. But a team in NY and creation of a RSN is a license to print money since demand or no demand the cable outlets etc... will be forced to hand over a boatload of cash in the form of forced subscriptions. There isn't a lot of risk unless someone puts an end to forcing carriage of RSNs in local markets.

[mweb]

The Yankees and Mets support a combined payroll pushing $400 million. Demand is clearly there, at least based on the revenue base relative to other markets.

Demand for those two teams, not necessarily for some random team.

But again, talking more about demand in terms of building a stadium for this team.

And in regards to making an impact on the Mets and Yanks, I just don't see it being that big. Those teams have loyal fans, and if you're a fan of them, why would you leave them for a new team in the same area? It's not like fans in NoVA or DC getting a team there and rooting for them more instead of the O's. Plus, the Yanks are a rather desirable team to root for.

I'd be all for this if it happened, but I wouldn't expect it to change that much with the Yanks, and it's far from the best solution imo. Do it along with stronger and better measures.

[geschinger]

Demand for the Yankees and Mets. What makes anyone think a third team is a viable substitute good?

I'd argue that of all the teams in baseball, these two would be among the last for which existed any substitute goods.

The way I would attack generating demand is to undercut the price of attending games. NYY tickets are unaffordable for many NYers and Mets tickets aren't far behind. Make it affordabe to attend New New York Team games and you'll get butts in the seats. Sure at first it might be to see the opposing teams more than a rooting interest in New New York Team but over time those going to those games will develop into fans for the New New York Team. It's a long process but as long as the owner of New New York Team has the resources to have created an RSN revenues will not be an issue and they'll be able to put a quality product on the field.

[mweb]

Sure there would be obstacles and it would take deep pockets. But a team in NY and creation of a RSN is a license to print money since demand or no demand the cable outlets etc... will be forced to hand over a boatload of cash in the form of forced subscriptions. There isn't a lot of risk unless someone puts an end to forcing carriage of RSNs in local markets.

Well I have trouble believing a creation of an RSN for this team would be pheasable until/unless the team becomes successful there. But I don't know a great deal about that. Are you saying if the Marlins showed up in NYC and setup a RSN, the cable networks in the area would have to carry it?

Anyway, even if the team is successful financially due to a RSN, that's still not hurting the Yanks much, if at all.

[Lucky Jim]

The way I would attack generating demand is to undercut the price of attending games. NYY tickets are unaffordable for many NYers and Mets tickets aren't far behind. Make it affordabe to attend New New York Team games and you'll get butts in the seats. Sure at first it might be to see the opposing teams more than a rooting interest in New New York Team but over time those going to those games will develop into fans for the New New York Team. It's a long process but as long as the owner of New New York Team has the resources to have created an RSN revenues will not be an issue and they'll be able to put a quality product on the field.

Like I said, maybe this works in NNJ (I don't know). But let's be clear, in the NYC metro area, we're not talking about some vast suburban middle class: there are those with money and those without. The folks who fall into some middle ground (single, less than $75K a year) are a highly uncertain baseball market.

[Jagwar]

Demand for the Yankees and Mets. What makes anyone think a third team is a viable substitute good?

I'd argue that of all the teams in baseball, these two would be among the last for which existed any substitute goods.

Or demand for the real "goods" in question... baseball. Where did the demand go when the Dodgers and Giants went west? I'm sure it wasn't immediate, but didn't a sizable population of fans migrate to the Mets or Yankees? Or didn't new generations support the teams that were there, not the ones that left?

While the Mets and Yankees have as devoted fans as you will find, it is not a ridiculous notion to believe that MLB would be able to find a feasible situation to find, build, and sustain a fanbase.

Put a team there, give them some financial tools/incentives to build the franchise, eventually the demand for baseball will create a following.

[Stotle]

Like I said, maybe this works in NNJ (I don't know). But let's be clear, in the NYC metro area, we're not talking about some vast suburban middle class: there are those with money and those without. The folks who fall into some middle ground (single, less than $75K a year) are a highly uncertain baseball market.

Yup. If there is one thing I've learned in my time in NYC it's that there is no such thing as a true middle-class in this market. Now, are there people in the $75K or less bracket you describe that also attend NYA and NYN games? Of course. But the loss of those ticket holders will be nil with regards to the NYA/NYN revenue streams -- there is so much demand from the higher brackets that people would step-in seamlessly.

I can't think of ANY way to realistically cut into the money those organizations bring in with simply forcing them to share with other organizations.

[rhall]

I don't think any of those things have much of a chance of happening, but I voted move a team to the NYC market by default. Now that I "say" it out loud, I'm not even sure that's the most likely.

[mweb]

Or demand for the real "goods" in question... baseball. Where did the demand go when the Dodgers and Giants went west? I'm sure it wasn't immediate, but didn't a sizable population of fans migrate to the Mets or Yankees? Or didn't new generations support the teams that were there, not the ones that left?

While the Mets and Yankees have as devoted fans as you will find, it is not a ridiculous notion to believe that MLB would be able to find a feasible situation to find, build, and sustain a fanbase.

Put a team there, give them some financial tools/incentives to build the franchise, eventually the demand for baseball will create a following.

The Mets weren't there when the Dodgers and Giants went west. Many of the fans of those teams became Mets fans when they were established.

[Lucky Jim]

Or demand for the real "goods" in question... baseball. Where did the demand go when the Dodgers and Giants went west? I'm sure it wasn't immediate, but didn't a sizable population of fans migrate to the Mets or Yankees? Or didn't new generations support the teams that were there, not the ones that left?

While the Mets and Yankees have as devoted fans as you will find, it is not a ridiculous notion to believe that MLB would be able to find a feasible situation to find, build, and sustain a fanbase.

Put a team there, give them some financial tools/incentives to build the franchise, eventually the demand for baseball will create a following.

I'm sorry - are the Yankees and Mets going somewhere? I'm not sure I follow. If you're saying that folks left in the wake of the Dodgers and Giants leaving found the Yankees (or later the Mets) to be a substitute good - well, that's not using the term correctly. A substitute good is something that folks will buy if given a choice, not if wholly deprived of their first choice.

The issue here is that "baseball" as a "good" is available beyond locality. We're no longer tied to local papers, local radio and going to the game as we were in other eras. I have MLB packages for my computer AND my cable, and the internet to exchange hot air with similar-minded folks.

If I'm not willing to give up the O's for the Yanks and Mets, even though the O's are miles and miles away, why would anyone here give up the Yanks and Mets for some crappy team when the Yanks and Mets are still available? Do you see the illogic?

Maybe a generation from now you find that youngsters start to pick up the third option. But of those with preferences now your baseball fans in NYC are likely: (i) Yanks fans; (ii) Mets fans; (iii) out-of-town fans; (iv) baseball fans without affiliation.

I'm positing a hypothetical (iv) because that demographic must be tiny. So, where are folks going to come from if the needs for the first three categories are met?