I'm a little disappointed in AM

[Old#5fan]

I don't agree w/ that. I think the fundamental point you're missing is that the work the Yanks are doing is essentially to maintain the status quo. Their improvement is entirely extrinsic. The Orioles' is intrinsic. Which makes it difficult to measure one against the other.

I'm pretty good w/ the O's moves as of right now. But then again, I realize that it's not a question of now or never. And that sometimes the answer has to be something other than right now.

Folks on here clamoring for instant gratification are like children in a toy store crying in the aisles because they think the only way for their parents to prove their love is to buy them the toy on that shelf, right now. It's just not the case. Especially when there are already a ton of Christmas gifts waiting at home, waiting to be opened.

I am not clamoring for instant gratification but if McPhail doesn't do enough talent wise to at a minimum gain 10 more wins (and preferably 15) in 2010 than to me he is failing in his job. Right now, what he has done is no way on earth going to achieve that barring a miracle. IMO you don't base your organizations improvement on miracle projections unlikely to occur or wishful Pollyanna Optimist type thinking while ignoring the actions of those you need to attain competitiveness with.

McPhail is guility as charged of this and deserves to be held accountable and I predict the puzzling loyalty to his moves by many here will be fading immensely as this season once again goes down the toilet and will do so quite quickly.

[Moose Milligan]

Folks on here clamoring for instant gratification are like children in a toy store crying in the aisles because they think the only way for their parents to prove their love is to buy them the toy on that shelf, right now. It's just not the case. Especially when there are already a ton of Christmas gifts waiting at home, waiting to be opened.

It'll go over their heads by a mile but this is a great analogy.

[Lucky Jim]

1. I am not clamoring for instant gratification but if McPhail doesn't do enough talent wise to at a minimum gain 10 more wins (and preferably 15) in 2010 than to me he is failing in his job.

2. Right now, what he has done is no way on earth going to achieve that barring a miracle.

3. IMO you don't base your organizations improvement on miracle projections unlikely to occur or wishful Pollyanna Optimist type thinking while ignoring the actions of those you need to attain competitiveness.

1. You are clamoring for instant gratification because you seem to think that improvement is always linear, and that not winning 10 more this year means we won't win, say, 18 more in 2011.

2. See above. Also: improvement isn't necessarily linear.

3. Of course you don't. No one here is. Just because you - belligerently uninformed about our prospects and prospects elsewhere - think others are being overly optimistic doesn't mean they are. Further, there's no need to call anyone a "Pollyanna" simply because they disagree with you about the future of the Orioles.

[Old#5fan]

1. You are clamoring for instant gratification because you seem to think that improvement is always linear, and that not winning 10 more this year means we won't win, say, 18 more in 2011.

2. See above. Also: improvement isn't necessarily linear.

3. Of course you don't. No one here is. Just because you - belligerently uninformed about our prospects and prospects elsewhere - think others are being overly optimistic doesn't mean they are. Further, there's no need to call anyone a "Pollyanna" simply because they disagree with you about the future of the Orioles.

You are overlooking the confidence factor that continual losing (oh well, we cannot compete so let's just go through the motions) does to the mindset and pysche of these players. It not only becomes acceptible, it becomes the norm. Its called the "Wait Til Next Year Syndrome." This seems to have settled in quite nicely with many posters here as well. It is also an element that this team will be battling with on a yearly basis from now until enternity unless their GM lands some bonifide proven all-star level talent which this team lacks at the moment.

[Dr. Andrews]

See there is no perfect fit for the Orioles. Teixeira was and now that opportunity has passed. Now we've got to take what we can get.

Holliday is a RH #4 bat and so is Bay. Just because they don't play 1B doesn't mean we shouldn't be pursuing them, Holliday especially because of his ties to Atkins and Roberts.

We can't just keep waiting for that "right player" otherwise we may miss out on opportunities to add players that can really make a difference on this club.

The more talent we pass on, that's more talent we'll have to add in the future. Our young players will only develop to a certain point and we'll need a lot more talent than just them to compete.

What more did the Phillies need 2 years ago to win the World Series? Their "core" was made up primarily of home-grown players: Howard, Utley, Rollins, Hamels, Burrell, etc...Lidge helped them, yes, but you're talking "top tier" signings...coming out of Houston, he was a big question mark.

Also, staying in the same World Series, did the Rays make any significant signings to win the best division in baseball and make a run at the ship? No. The core is much more valuable than the add-ons, IMO. Even the Red Sox and Yankees know this. What would the Yanks be without Jeter, Posada, Cano, Rivera, Pettitte, Melky, etc.? What would the Sox be without Youkilis, Lester, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Papelbon, etc.? We can say all we want about their money, but they developed some impressive players, too, that contribute greatly to their success. We tried to do it without a "core" for 12 years and it didn't pan out. This is our new plan...take it, chew on it a while, and see how it works.

[Lucky Jim]

You are overlooking the confidence factor that continual losing (oh well, we cannot compete so let's just go through the motions) does to the mindset and pysche of these players. It not only becomes acceptible, it becomes the norm. Its called the "Wait Til Next Year Syndrome." This seems to have settled in quite nicely with many posters here as well.

Quantify that for me. Show me examples of good teams full of good young players who didn't win because they'd gotten used to losing.

[Old#5fan]

Quantify that for me. Show me examples of good teams full of good young players who didn't win because they'd gotten used to losing.

Kansas City comes to mind as does the Pirates. The Orioles are now in that mold, and Detroit was like that for years until they finally did what AM needs to do with the Orioles and that is supplement these youngters with some proven major league stars.

[Moose Milligan]

Kansas City comes to mind as does the Pirates. The Orioles are now in that mold, and Detroit was like that for years until they finally did what AM needs to do with the Orioles and that is supplement these youngters with some proven major league stars.

Would it be too much to ask you to take a look at what the Tigers are currently having to do right now? Is that too much to ask?

Would it be then too much to ask to see if you can draw a correlation between what the Tigers did and what the Orioles would probably have to do?

[Lucky Jim]

Kansas City comes to mind as does the Pirates. The Orioles are now in that mold, and Detroit was like that for years until they finally did what AM needs to do with the Orioles and that is supplement these youngters with some proven major league stars.

You're saying that the Royals and Pirates had the talent to win but not the confidence?

Have you looked at the rosters?

[Old#5fan]

You're saying that the Royals and Pirates had the talent to win but not the confidence?

Have you looked at the rosters?

Well, the Pirates made some of the most stupid trades imaginable becoming a farm team for the Red Sox and others. The Royals have some great young talent as well. Grieneke, and Butler for example. I think they have a better core than the Orioles do right now.

[Dr. Andrews]

Kansas City comes to mind as does the Pirates. The Orioles are now in that mold, and Detroit was like that for years until they finally did what AM needs to do with the Orioles and that is supplement these youngters with some proven major league stars.

The Rays come to mind as a counter argument to your claim. They seem like the most relative counter argument because they, like us, also have to take down the Red Sox and Yanks. They made no major additions except for those from their farm system, and went on to win our division and make the World Series. They also experienced down years from some of their key players in 2009 including Kazmir and Burrell, yet still managed to finish 6 games over .500...a dream for O's fans.

[Dr. Andrews]

Well, the Pirates made some of the most stupid trades imaginable becoming a farm team for the Red Sox and others. The Royals have some great young talent as well. Grieneke, and Butler for example. I think they have a better core than the Orioles do right now.

Alright, now you're just crazy...I love Greinke, but there's no way they have a better core than: Markakis, Roberts, Jones, Reimold, Wieters, Matusz, Tillman, Bergesen. There's absolutely no way...and that's not even biased. Everyone knows we're an up and coming team...you don't hear that about the Royals, and there's a reason you don't.

[Old#5fan]

The Rays come to mind as a counter argument to your claim. They seem like the most relative counter argument because they, like us, also have to take down the Red Sox and Yanks. They made no major additions except for those from their farm system, and went on to win our division and make the World Series. They also experienced down years from some of their key players in 2009 including Kazmir and Burrell, yet still managed to finish 6 games over .500...a dream for O's fans.

The Rays have drafted better (and more higher picks) than the Orioles for years. They also made some smart trades which the Orioles have done few and far between until AM came along. I also think they may have caught lightening in a bottle as the jury is way out on whether they weren't just a one year wonder.

[El Gordo]

I am not clamoring for instant gratification but if McPhail doesn't do enough talent wise to at a minimum gain 10 more wins (and preferably 15) in 2010 than to me he is failing in his job. Right now, what he has done is no way on earth going to achieve that barring a miracle. IMO you don't base your organizations improvement on miracle projections unlikely to occur or wishful Pollyanna Optimist type thinking while ignoring the actions of those you need to attain competitiveness with.

McPhail is guility as charged of this and deserves to be held accountable and I predict the puzzling loyalty to his moves by many here will be fading immensely as this season once again goes down the toilet and will do so quite quickly.

If not, then what do you mean by "big splashes" and "pizzaz"? We will probably have a minimum gain of 10 wins, if McP does nothing. 2010 is about the growth of Matusz, Bergy, Tillman, Jones, Reimold and Pie. He needed to provide them with adequate vet. support for that growth. Gonzo, Atkins, and Millwood, are good additions and could give us an extra 4-5 wins. I think he needs to add another bat. but we could easily be an 80 win team this year. If we don't get the expected growth from our core, no amount of big splashes will help us. We have cast our lot with them. That is the plan like it or not.

[Lucky Jim]

Well, the Pirates made some of the most stupid trades imaginable becoming a farm team for the Red Sox and others. The Royals have some great young talent as well. Grieneke, and Butler for example. I think they have a better core than the Orioles do right now.

Okay. So neither example proves your point:

1. The Pirates lost because they made "the most stupid trades imaginable" - not because of confidence.

2. The Royals have some great young talent now. Thus the jury is still out.

I said give me examples that prove your point. I'll keep waiting.