I'm a little disappointed in AM

[Old#5fan]

I bet you can't even tell us the core of the Royals without checking their roster and minor leagues first. Even then I'd expect something laughable from you.

The point is not my knowledge of the Royals roster and their minor leagues but they just like the Orioles have a major hurdle to overcome and that is the culture of losing and the losing mentality that has been the norm within their organization for years and years. So you are missing the point of the argument that was going on that I was engaged. It really isn't worthy of argument anyway as it is mere common sense. If you continually lose at anything you develop a losing mentality or way. In short, the opposite of a winner. Again, just common sense.

[Lucky Jim]

The point is not my knowledge of the Royals roster and their minor leagues but they just like the Orioles have a major hurdle to overcome and that is the culture of losing and the losing mentality that has been the norm within their organization for years and years. So you are missing the point of the argument that was going on that I was engaged.

You need to show us a team that hasn't overcome that hurdle before you start positing it as some kind of definite obstacle.

I asked for evidence. You do understand what evidence is, right?

[Dr. Andrews]

The Rays have drafted better (and more higher picks) than the Orioles for years. They also made some smart trades which the Orioles have done few and far between until AM came along. I also think they may have caught lightening in a bottle as the jury is way out on whether they weren't just a one year wonder.

Finishing 6 games above .500 with down years from your "ace" and "middle of the order bat", as well as Upton missing 3 or so weeks at the beginning and an injury plagued campaign by Longoria, (especially in our division) proves to me that they weren't a one hit wonder. Do you think the Rockies were a one year wonder just because they made the playoffs, missed out, then made them again? No. They weren't. Longoria, Shields, Garza, Pena, Crawford, Upton, Price, etc. are going to be competitive as long as they stay in Tampa Bay...unless we take over their position in the AL East, of course .

[Old#5fan]

You need to show us a team that hasn't overcome that hurdle before you start positing it as some kind of definite obstacle.

I asked for evidence. You do understand what evidence is, right?

Evidence of what? Common sense? Since you are apparently somehow lost on this topic I will give you an example of this. The Pittsburgh Steelers and their fans (hell the entire organization) expect them to win every year. They have 6 Lombardi Trophies to show that they are a 'winning" franchise or organization. Conversely, the Pirates are terrible. The same Pittsburgh fans expect them to be terrible and to lose as no doubt do their players and even coaches. So common sense tells you that the fans, players, FO, hell everyone involved in both of these teams has an entirely different outlook, set of expectations and goals that they feel the need to meet or live up to.Ergo: the Pirates not only have their own lousy performance to overcome and apparent lack of talent, they also have to reverse the expectations and mindset, outlook, etc. that they are LOSERS plain and simple! The Steelers don't have this problem whatsover.

[Lucky Jim]

Evidence of what? Common sense? Since you are apparently somehow lost on this topic I will give you an example of this. The Pittsburgh Steelers and their fans (hell the entire organization) expect them to win every year. They have 6 Lombardi Trophies to show that they are a 'winning" franchise or organization. Conversely, the Pirates are terrible. The same Pittsburgh fans expect them to be terrible and to lose. So common sense tells you that the fans, players, FO, hell everyone involved in both of these teams has an entirely different outlook, set of expectations and goals that they feel the need to meet or live up to. If you cannot see the difference and ask for evidence, that is about like asking for evidence that the sky is blue!:laughlol:

I just cut and pasted this to the Wikipedia page for Logical Fallacy.

We've given you enough rope, and you're systematically hanging yourself. If you make it out of this thread, it will clearly be a Christmas Miracle: http://www.theonion.com/content/news/survival_of_autoerotic

[Old#5fan]

If not, then what do you mean by "big splashes" and "pizzaz"? We will probably have a minimum gain of 10 wins, if McP does nothing. 2010 is about the growth of Matusz, Bergy, Tillman, Jones, Reimold and Pie. He needed to provide them with adequate vet. support for that growth. Gonzo, Atkins, and Millwood, are good additions and could give us an extra 4-5 wins. I think he needs to add another bat. but we could easily be an 80 win team this year. If we don't get the expected growth from our core, no amount of big splashes will help us. We have cast our lot with them. That is the plan like it or not.

Again, here were go in assuming as if it is an "automatic" the "growth or improved performance of our youngters. Sort of like the ludicrous assumptions here that Nick Markakis was on his way to becoming Carl Yazstremski the second coming. It didn't happen, he regressed.

[Old#5fan]

I just cut and pasted this to the Wikipedia page for Logical Fallacy.

We've given you enough rope, and you're systematically hanging yourself. If you make it out of this thread, it will clearly be a Christmas Miracle: http://www.theonion.com/content/news/survival_of_autoerotic

Your problem is you are so highly intelligent you lack basic common sense. I have seen this many times. I even have a sister like that. Genius level but would have a hard time figuring out which way a hinge would go on a door!:laughlol:

BTW, you quoted my first while I was in the process of editing it. Go back and re-read what I wrote. I removed the sky is blue comment as I was wrong in using that tone.

[Lucky Jim]

A little Latin lesson for O5F.

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[Old#5fan]

Wow. So you have no idea who the core of the Royals actually is but you have a strong opinion that it is better than the Oriole's core. What do you call your world?

Again, that is not what the argument was about. It was about the Royals and the Orioles having a culture of losing to overcome and lack of confidence by their young and developing players.

I wasn't making an indepth assessement of the Orioles versus KC minor league system. I do think they have a better core of major league youngsters though. Grienke is better than any young Oriole pitcher by a landslide and Butler is the first baseman the Orioles can never seem to develop and for that alone I would give them an edge.

[Old#5fan]

A little Latin lesson for O5F.

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I got an F in Latin and didn't really care to learn it as it is a dead language and a waste of my time.:laughlol:

[Lucky Jim]

I got an F in Latin and didn't really care to learn it as it is a dead language and a waste of my time.:laughlol:

You'd be well-advised to figure out what post hoc ergo propter hoc means, because it's like kudzu spreading all over your opinions.

[El Gordo]

Again, here were go in assuming as if it is an "automatic" the "growth or improved performance of our youngters. Sort of like the ludicrous assumptions here that Nick Markakis was on his way to becoming Carl Yazstremski the second coming. It didn't happen, he regressed.

Where did I say it was automatic? My assumptions are not nearly as ludicrous as you reading comprehension skills. I said we are banking on that improvement, like it or not. If it doesn't come, big splshes aren't going to help. Do you advocate trading our young core players, and spending money better used in the future, to nail down a quick fix team that may contend for a couple of years, before it leaves the system in worse shape, than the last time we tried that approach?:rolleyestf:

[Old#5fan]

Where did I say it was automatic? My assumptions are not nearly as ludicrous as you reading comprehension skills. I said we are banking on that improvement, like it or not. If it doesn't come, big splshes aren't going to help. Do you advocate trading our young core players, and spending money better used in the future, to nail down a quick fix team that may contend for a couple of years, before it leaves the system in worse shape, than the last time we tried that approach?:rolleyestf:

No, but I fail to see how adding young yet proven star quality talent is a bad move at any time? For example, you are "banking" on the young talent developing to the maximum. Yet in reality this rarely happens. So, say the young pitching talent bombs and only one develops into a serviceable major league starter, what is plan B? Do you trade away some of your more established veteran players like say, Markakis or Jones for more prospects? I mean at some point if you live or die by prospects and die you have to realize that spending money on the talent is going to be a necessity not a choice or a luxury.

[El Gordo]

No, but I fail to see how adding young yet proven star quality talent is a bad move at any time? For example, you are "banking" on the young talent developing to the maximum. Yet in reality this rarely happens. So, say the young pitching talent bombs and only one develops into a serviceable major league starter, what is plan B? Do you trade away some of your more established veteran players like say, Markakis or Jones for more prospects? I mean at some point if you live or die by prospects and die you have to realize that spending money on the talent is going to be a necessity not a choice or a luxury.

Holliday is young? Beltre and Lackey are young? What young proven talent are you refering to? FA's are almost always past their peak performance years and you are paying for their plateau and decline years. We are stockpiling young, 25 and under, talent so that we should have more than just one sucessfull SP. I would say that Jones and Reimold have already proven themselves serviceable and the real question is just how good they can be. Ditto Matusz. But these are issues of talent evaluation by duffers, so more latin aplies here. De gustibus non est disputandum.:laughlol:

[scOtt]

Again, that is not what the argument was about. It was about the Royals and the Orioles having a culture of losing to overcome and lack of confidence by their young and developing players.

I wasn't making an indepth assessement of the Orioles versus KC minor league system. I do think they have a better core of major league youngsters though. Grienke is better than any young Oriole pitcher by a landslide and Butler is the first baseman the Orioles can never seem to develop and for that alone I would give them an edge.

The Rays never had a winning season in their history til they went to the WS. How did that losing culture work out for them?