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Time to trade Felix Pie

SilentJames

By SilentJames
in Orioles Talk

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cm31 A-Ball

cm31

Posted
Posted
Trading Pie right now would be the biggest mistake this organization has made in ten years, and yes, that's saying something. I fully believe that within two years Felix will be a more valuable player than Markakis, Reimold, or Adam Jones.

What do you base this statement off of???

I saw a lot of base running mistakes and fielding mistakes throughout the 09 season. Yes, he did have a good august/september, but to say this would be the biggest mistake the O's have made in years is quite a statement, if you are just basing it off of 2 months.

He wasn't able to do it in Chicago, he wasn't able to do it for the first 4 months of the season. What's to say he can repeat for an entire season?

The Orioles need to trade Pie while his stock is high (if they can get quality for him).

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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Totally, I am not suggesting you let him go for a song. And if Felix is happy being a fourth outfielder then so be it. but if he IS good enough to be a starter then we could get something significant for him then he is the one that should be traded.

Your entire premise seems to be based on 3 faulty ideas.

  • One is the bolded part, which is lousy if-then logic re: any trades that might happen now.
  • Another one is the notion that he was lousy in LF. He made a few terrible plays at first, but later on provided ample evidence for why he had been seen as a good-D OF'er.
  • The third one is that he has no place with the Orioles.

The first 2 ideas are just plain wrong.

The third one is iffy at best.

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TyCobb Perennial All-Star

TyCobb

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Your entire premise seems to be based on 3 faulty ideas.
  • One is the bolded part, which is lousy if-then logic re: any trades that might happen now.
  • Another one is the notion that he was lousy in LF. He made a few terrible plays at first, but later on provided ample evidence for why he had been seen as a good-D OF'er.
  • The third one is that he has no place with the Orioles.

The first 2 ideas are just plain wrong.

The third one is iffy at best.

ample evidence? It takes close to 3000 innings to get ample evidence.

And SJ isn't saying it....Roch is.

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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ample evidence? It takes close to 3000 innings to get ample evidence.

And SJ isn't saying it....Roch is.

It does not take 3000 innings to tell if somebody is a good OF'er. That's crazy.

As for whoever said he proved to be lousy in LF, it doesn't matter who said it. It's wrong no matter who said it.

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emmett16 Hangout Grand Counsel

emmett16

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According to Roch's newest post

http://masnsports.com/2009/12/the-outfield-and-more-on-steve.html

Felix has no real role on this team outside of CF or fourth outfielder.

the team views Jones as the CF of the present and future and Pie was atrocious in left and not a significant upgrade over Riemold.

Given that I think we need to trade Felix, he is too good to be a fourth outfielder and Lou Montanez can do that just as effectively. If Felix is good enough to be a starter somewhere in the league, what could we get for him?

You don't trade a 24yo potential all star who has 5 years of service time left and makes 400k unless you get floored. They can easily find 2500 AB's for Scott, Reimold, Jones, and Markakis. If Jones is as 'injury prone' as people say, then who plays CF when/if he goes down? What if Reimolds injury comes back? O's are in a good spot. Trading him puts us in a bad spot. AM knows best.

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TyCobb Perennial All-Star

TyCobb

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It does not take 3000 innings to tell if somebody is a good OF'er. That's crazy.

As for whoever said he proved to be lousy in LF, it doesn't matter who said it. It's wrong no matter who said it.

I guess you can tell how good a hitter is after 200 ABs.

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Robbie AAA

Robbie

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IMO, there is no way DT gives Pie the playing time to even come close to adding a lot of value to this team.

Unless Jones, Markakis or Reimold get hurt both Pie will be getting only spot starts all year long.

Scott should be added to the three. And you are saying there is not a significant chance chance that one of the four miss a good amount of time or they combine to miss a good amount of time?

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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I guess you can tell how good a hitter is after 200 ABs.

Apples and oranges. How many AB's you need to judge a hitter has nothing to do with what's required to tell if somebody is a good OF'er. By now, it is certain that Pie is a good OF'er. What is unknown is whether he could be great at it. But there should be zero doubt that he's a good one. This is a place where you don't need a ton of stats, you can judge by watching how a guy plays.

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TyCobb Perennial All-Star

TyCobb

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Apples and oranges. How many AB's you need to judge a hitter has nothing to do with what's required to tell if somebody is a good OF'er. By now, it is certain that Pie is a good OF'er. What is unknown is whether he could be great at it. But there should be zero doubt that he's a good one. This is a place where you don't need a ton of stats, you can judge by watching how a guy plays.

Oh yea why is that?

Unless your at the game you don't even see how an OF adjust on a hitter. At least with a batter you can see all the adjustments on tv per AB.

There is no certainty at all that Pie is a good OF'er. All there is to judge on him right now is scouting reports that say he is great.

Your certainty on Pie fielding is laughable for someone who always complains about projections.

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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Oh yea why is that?

Unless your at the game you don't even see how an OF adjust on a hitter. At least with a batter you can see all the adjustments on tv per AB.

There is no certainty at all that Pie is a good OF'er. All there is to judge on him right now is scouting reports that say he is great.

Your certainty on Pie fielding is laughable for someone who always complains about projections.

I'm not sure what you're going on about. I said we do know he's a good OF'er but we don't know exactly how good he will be. '

Saying that we need 3000 innings to tell if a guy is a good OF'er is a bizarre notion. I don't know where you got that from but, wherever it is, you should send it back ;-)

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Lucky Jim Hangout Grand Counsel

Lucky Jim

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I'm not sure what you're going on about. I said we do know he's a good OF'er but we don't know exactly how good he will be. '

Saying that we need 3000 innings to tell if a guy is a good OF'er is a bizarre notion. I don't know where you got that from but, wherever it is, you should send it back ;-)

I think he's focused on something like UZR samples. You're talking at cross purposes.

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DallasOsFan High-A

DallasOsFan

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Trading Pie right now would be the biggest mistake this organization has made in ten years, and yes, that's saying something. I fully believe that within two years Felix will be a more valuable player than Markakis, Reimold, or Adam Jones.

Does this quote strike anyone else as completely baffling? I can't see him being more valuable than any of the three ... and you see him as more valuable than all three?

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TyCobb Perennial All-Star

TyCobb

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I'm not sure what you're going on about. I said we do know he's a good OF'er but we don't know exactly how good he will be. '

Saying that we need 3000 innings to tell if a guy is a good OF'er is a bizarre notion. I don't know where you got that from but, wherever it is, you should send it back ;-)

Nobody really knows how good Pie is in the field. All anybody knows is he got the tools to be a good/great fielder.

How he uses his tools is what matters. Unless you have 3000 innings (around 3 seasons) it is pretty damn hard to know what kind of value a player is in the field.

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Lucky Jim Hangout Grand Counsel

Lucky Jim

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Does this quote strike anyone else as completely baffling? I can't see him being more valuable than any of the three ... and you see him as more valuable than all three?

I'm not sure why it would baffle you that someone disagrees w/ your valuation. I mean, he might be bullish on Pie, but you're baffled?

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Lucky Jim Hangout Grand Counsel

Lucky Jim

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Nobody really knows how good Pie is in the field. All anybody knows is he got the tools to be a good/great fielder.

How he uses his tools is what matters. Unless you have 3000 innings (around 3 seasons) it is pretty damn hard to know what kind of value a player is in the field.

Did we struggle knowing that Tulo was pretty good? Zimmerman? Gutierez?

Personally, I think it's safe to say that Pie is a good fielder. Whether he's great or not is unknown.

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