Disappointed at all?

[Moose Milligan]

I don't disagree with this. But looking at the off-season on the whole, why is it okay to throw away draft picks on Gonzalez when the other moves are essentially saying, "We don't care about whether we win during 50% of Gonzalez's contract"? Again, maybe there are more moves -- the off-season isn't over.

But I'd have an easier time throwing money and a pick at a closer if I thought BAL was trying to leverage some sort of opportunity this year. I don't care how little people think a second round pick is worth, it's almost certainly worth more than the additional 2 wins this year Gonzalez looks to bring to the current collection of talent.

The big picture is my potential issue with what AM is doing this off-season. Not the moves in a vacuum, but how they fit (or fail to fit) together.

I understand why you didn't like losing the pick and don't really blame you for that.

I didn't mind the Gonzalez move as it bumps up everyone in our pen and hopefully gives more support to our young arms.

[MikeAD]

And the apathy will make it happen much quicker...

MacPhail has said the fans will determine when the Orioles have made a significant improvement.

If the majority continues to be satisfied or apathetic with MacPhail's moves or lack there of, he has no pressure to improve.

I'm sorry man, I don't want it to seem like I'm calling you out, but I sure hope that Andy freaking MacPhail isn't worried about pleasing the fans. Every fanbase wants their team to get the best of the best. Can you imagine what baseball would look like if every GM and President just aimed to please the fans rather than putting the best/winningest team on the field? It would be a circus.

I don't just sit around and give him a "pass" for every move he does, but hes gotten most everything right, IMO, and this is just another good day at the office.

[JayThomas]

How can anyone be not 'at all disappointed'?

Compared to the Beltre contract, that Atkins deal is atrocious. With Sheets still available, perhaps for a very short term contract, how can the Millwood trade seem preferable to signing Sheets?

OTOH, how can anyone be not 'at all pleased'? Having Millwood at the top of the rotation is much much better than not having Millwood and not getting Sheets. Getting Atkins (in a vacuum) isn't so bad if we can get him back on track (and I have to believe someone in the organization thinks we can). Getting Gonzalez is a toss-up. I'm really happy to have him but I don't like giving up a draft pick for a closer when we don't plan to contend.

It's all situational. (But) to say that you're not 'at all disappointed' I can't understand - even if the disappointment is to whine and say 'why wouldn't Beltre sign that contract with us?'.

[JTrea81]

I'm sorry man, I don't want it to seem like I'm calling you out, but I sure hope that Andy freaking MacPhail isn't worried about pleasing the fans. Every fanbase wants their team to get the best of the best. Can you imagine what baseball would look like if every GM and President just aimed to please the fans rather than putting the best/winningest team on the field? It would be a circus.

I don't just sit around and give him a "pass" for every move he does, but hes gotten most everything right, IMO, and this is just another good day at the office.

The fanbase is what produces revenue.

If he doesn't want to see a whole lot of Camden green, he'd better care.

The Orioles are irrelevant in Baltimore and in baseball right now. MacPhail needs to do something to change that and soon.

He promised to give Trembley what he needed to win, and so far he hasn't delivered.

[theobird]

How can anyone be not 'at all disappointed'?

Compared to the Beltre contract, that Atkins deal is atrocious. With Sheets still available, perhaps for a very short term contract, how can the Millwood trade seem preferable to signing Sheets?

OTOH, how can anyone be not 'at all pleased'? Having Millwood at the top of the rotation is much much better than not having Millwood and not getting Sheets. Getting Atkins (in a vacuum) isn't so bad if we can get him back on track (and I have to believe someone in the organization thinks we can). Getting Gonzalez is a toss-up. I'm really happy to have him but I don't like giving up a draft pick for a closer when we don't plan to contend.

It's all situational. (But) to say that you're not 'at all disappointed' I can't understand - even if the disappointment is to whine and say 'why wouldn't Beltre sign that contract with us?'.

Because some have fallen under the AM spell. They drink the Orange cool aid, and whatever AM does is gold. I like Andy MacPhail, and I think he has done a lot of good for the organization. But he has not been great thus far at taking this team to the next level. This offseason has been a total disaster so far, IMO. It isn't over, so he still has some time to pull it out. But his options are dwindling.

[MikeAD]

How can anyone be not 'at all disappointed'?

Compared to the Beltre contract, that Atkins deal is atrocious. With Sheets still available, perhaps for a very short term contract, how can the Millwood trade seem preferable to signing Sheets?

OTOH, how can anyone be not 'at all pleased'? Having Millwood at the top of the rotation is much much better than not having Millwood and not getting Sheets. Getting Atkins (in a vacuum) isn't so bad if we can get him back on track (and I have to believe someone in the organization thinks we can). Getting Gonzalez is a toss-up. I'm really happy to have him but I don't like giving up a draft pick for a closer when we don't plan to contend.

It's all situational. (But) to say that you're not 'at all disappointed' I can't understand - even if the disappointment is to whine and say 'why wouldn't Beltre sign that contract with us?'.

Well I agree with you, none of us should be entirely satisfied, but when it comes to these two "misses" I am completely content missing out. You do bring up a good point in comparing the Atkins and Beltre deals and that is disappointing. However (as others have pointed out), there is no guarantee, and in fact its unlikely, that Beltre signs here for the same amount. I compare this to Manny signing with LA on a one year with a player option. I don't think he signs that deal with the Orioles, all money being equal.

[Peace21]

The fanbase is what produces revenue.

If he doesn't want to see a whole lot of Camden green, he'd better care.

The Orioles are irrelevant in Baltimore and in baseball right now. MacPhail needs to do something to change that and soon.

He promised to give Trembley what he needed to win, and so far he hasn't delivered.

From people I speak to involved with MLB say he is changing the perception of the O's around baseball. For the good. All because they didn't land Adrian Beltre, you kidding me? Josh Bell will be crushing home runs out of Camden Yards in three years and Beltre will be older and maybe even out of baseball.

[lint06]

I know what he has and hasn't done.

I am not disappointed about these 2 signings..Its the whole offseason...Its been mediocre at best and he has yet to do anything to really address long term needs.

That would mean it has been about a average off season, not a poor one. Thus, Andy hasn't done a poor job, just an "ok" one.

[MikeAD]

Because some have fallen under the AM spell. They drink the Orange cool aid, and whatever AM does is gold. I like Andy MacPhail, and I think he has done a lot of good for the organization. But he has not been great thus far at taking this team to the next level. This offseason has been a total disaster so far, IMO. It isn't over, so he still has some time to pull it out. But his options are dwindling.

Well I don't drink any orange Kool-aid, but how can you call this off season a complete failure?

Closer: Checker.

Veteran Starter: Check

Body to hold down 3B/1B until Snyder/Bell are ready, and maybe even do well: Check

I would like to see one more veteran starter added to the rotation to take pressure off the young guys, but so far, I am not unhappy. And as you said, things aren't over. Historically, AM does the bulk of his trades in February. That month is still to come.

[MikeAD]

The fanbase is what produces revenue.

If he doesn't want to see a whole lot of Camden green, he'd better care.

The Orioles are irrelevant in Baltimore and in baseball right now. MacPhail needs to do something to change that and soon.

He promised to give Trembley what he needed to win, and so far he hasn't delivered.

The Orioles are irrelevant because they stink. Adding Beltre and Holliday won't cause a spike in attendance. Tex last year would have for awhile, but the numbers would just have dwindled as the year went on and the team tanked.

You have said that Holliday adds 9 wins to the 2010 team. Do you think 10 more wins is going to "wow" the fan base into coming out and filling the seats? When we win, and win for awhile, the fans will come back. That is true most places. Here in Pittsburgh, nobody talked about the Steelers when they were "done" and the week going into the Browns game, tickets were everywhere, nobody wanted to sit in the cold to "watch them lose." When they beat the Ravens, everyone was back in gold and black and the Steelers were unbeatable again. For a few weeks they were "irrelevant" though. The same is true for the Orioles and their fanbase. The only difference is our irrelevant stage is a decade and a half rather than a few weeks.

[JayThomas]

Well I agree with you, none of us should be entirely satisfied, but when it comes to these two "misses" I am completely content missing out. You do bring up a good point in comparing the Atkins and Beltre deals and that is disappointing. However (as others have pointed out), there is no guarantee, and in fact its unlikely, that Beltre signs here for the same amount. I compare this to Manny signing with LA on a one year with a player option. I don't think he signs that deal with the Orioles, all money being equal.

Yeah, I'm not equating 'disappointed' with 'disappointed with AM'. The simple fact that Boston signed Beltre to a contract that would've been a good signing to the O's disappoints me.

I agree that he wouldn't have signed that contract here, so my disappointment isn't necessarily with AM on that one. Who knows? If Beltre/Boras wanted 4 years or 1, then we weren't going to get him. In that case I'm disappointed (feel sorry for myself) that the O's are in this predicament where we have to offer more than other teams. It's sort of like my being disappointed that the Skankees have X times our revenue.

If Beltre would have accepted 2 years and we didn't offer 2/16 then I'm disappointed with AM.

[Fla_O'sfan]

The Orioles are irrelevant because they stink. Adding Beltre and Holliday won't cause a spike in attendance. Tex last year would have for awhile, but the numbers would just have dwindled as the year went on and the team tanked.

You have said that Holliday adds 9 wins to the 2010 team. Do you think 10 more wins is going to "wow" the fan base into coming out and filling the seats? When we win, and win for awhile, the fans will come back. That is true most places. Here in Pittsburgh, nobody talked about the Steelers when they were "done" and the week going into the Browns game, tickets were everywhere, nobody wanted to sit in the cold to "watch them lose." When they beat the Ravens, everyone was back in gold and black and the Steelers were unbeatable again. For a few weeks they were "irrelevant" though. The same is true for the Orioles and their fanbase. The only difference is our irrelevant stage is a decade and a half rather than a few weeks.

The Orioles aren't going to "win, and win for awhile". Their roster doesn't come close to mathcing up with the top 3 teams in the AL East. Signing Garrett Atkins, a .226 hitter and picking up a starter with a losing record in 3 of the past 5 years is not going to turn the Orioles into a winner. They were aboslutely pittiful last year....with the additions they've made so far, expect more of the same.

[MikeAD]

The Orioles aren't going to "win' date=' and win for awhile". Their roster doesn't come close to mathcing up with the top 3 teams in the AL East. Signing Garrett Atkins, a .226 hitter and picking up a starter with a losing record in 3 of the past 5 years is not going to turn the Orioles into a winner. They were aboslutely pittiful last year....with the additions they've made so far, expect more of the same.[/quote']

Did I ever say (or have I ever said) we will win this year, or even next year?

AM is building a team that will "win and win for awhile" as I said. So when we finally compete, we won't be a one or two year deal, we will have prolonged competition. We might not make the playoffs every year but we will be close.

Rebuilding is an ugly process, our has already looked better than most.

[Fla_O'sfan]

Because some have fallen under the AM spell. They drink the Orange cool aid, and whatever AM does is gold. I like Andy MacPhail, and I think he has done a lot of good for the organization. But he has not been great thus far at taking this team to the next level. This offseason has been a total disaster so far, IMO. It isn't over, so he still has some time to pull it out. But his options are dwindling.

You're fighting a losing battle...just look at the poll. The majority of Oriole fans are not disappointed. The worst team in the AL , over a decade of futility, and their answer to replacing Mora is Garret Atkins, and the fans are not diasappointed. I can't imagine what it would take to disappoint them...maybe the franchise moves out of town?

[Moose Milligan]

You're fighting a losing battle...just look at the poll. The majority of Oriole fans are not disappointed. The worst team in the AL ' date=' over a decade of futility, and their answer to replacing Mora is Garret Atkins, and the fans are not diasappointed. I can't imagine what it would take to disappoint them...maybe the franchise moves out of town?[/quote']

Maybe I didn't make myself clear earlier, as I was one of the ones who voted "no"...but I stopped getting my hopes up every year probably around 2003. Any glimmer of hope was definitely killed after 2005.

Disappointed implies that you had hope. Or faith. When it came to signing someone like Holliday or Beltre, I have no hope and I have no faith.

Therefore, I'm not disappointed...which seems to be easily mistaken with "happy" or "satisfied".

I was just smart enough not to get my hopes up in order to be let down.