Should we have signed Holliday for 7/120 with a Full NTC

[DrungoHazewood]

17 million per year for every year of the contract isn't a bad deal for Holliday who is a gym rat and will stay in shape and thus likely perform at a high abllity throughout that contract.

I'd be willing to bet a list of very good baseball players who were gym rats would show the majority of them were out of baseball by their mid-30s. Brady Anderson spent most of his waking hours in the gym and his OPS+ from age 34-on was 102, which combined with average defense is worth less than half what Holliday is getting.

[Dipper9]

Nick Markakis is going to be 30, in his "final years" so, no.

Plus he can DH if he becomes ridiculously slow and immobile.

79-5...and yet the Trea still thinks MacPhail is an idiot!

[Mike B]

The no-trade clause now is just a gimmick for more money to waive it.

Yes I would have signed him to that deal.

17 million per year for every year of the contract isn't a bad deal for Holliday who is a gym rat and will stay in shape and thus likely perform at a high abllity throughout that contract.

They will have him under contract until age 36.

Teixeira will also be under contract until age 36 for $60 million more.

Except in most cases it cost more to get the player to void his contract or you wind up paying for Holliday to play for a team like the Yankees or the Red Sox. Horrible contract for a good not great player.

[DeanMW]

Nick Markakis is going to be 30, in his "final years" so, no.

Plus he can DH if he becomes ridiculously slow and immobile.

Which probably means he isn't playing baseball anymore anyway, as he lost both legs in a horrible accident.

That is the only way Markakis' contract becomes 10% of the albatross Holliday's will almost certainly be.

[Lurker Todd]

The answer to the question is "probably not", but I don't think we should be high fiving that we did not sign the best hitter on the market. The teams that win overpay for the best players, and eventually we will have to as well.

[DrungoHazewood]

I agree, but that contract would not have crippled the Orioles.

It will however cripple the Cards.

1) I think the O's hold the contracts they're pursuing to a higher standard than "not crippling."

2) The contract made much more sense for the Cards than it would have for the Orioles. They're peaking now, just as Holliday is. They want him to keep them in the 90+ win range right now, when he's they type of player that'll do that. Them making the playoffs a few times with him playing a key role will go a long way towards making the contract acceptable.

The O's chances of making the playoffs go up as his stock goes down. When the core should really be hitting its stride in 2-4 years he'll be out of his peak years. By 2013 or 2014 he's likely to be a league-average player being paid like a 3.5-4 win star, and the contract runs until '16 or '17.

[DrungoHazewood]

79-5...and yet the Trea still thinks MacPhail is an idiot!

Like my Dad says about politics (won't get party-specific here to stay within board rules!): "I don't care if my side ever wins another election, just so long as we're right!"

[Satyr3206]

94% no. Is that the record?

[Sports Guy]

79-5...and yet the Trea still thinks MacPhail is an idiot!

So, Jtrea is supposed to change his opinion because a bunch of people, that he is likely to never meet, feels we shouldn't have made this signing?

I swear, those of you who jump on Jtrea every chance you get ruin this board about 1000 times more than he does.

[Hank Scorpio]

94% no. Is that the record?

Give it time.

[Moose Milligan]

So, Jtrea is supposed to change his opinion because a bunch of people, that he is likely to never meet, feels we shouldn't have made this signing?

I swear, those of you who jump on Jtrea every chance you get ruin this board about 1000 times more than he does.

I'm not jumping on El Trea here, but if I were on the wrong side of a 97-6 poll I just MIGHT reconsider a few things.

I'm just speaking for myself here.

[JTrea81]

I'm not jumping on El Trea here, but if I were on the wrong side of a 97-6 poll I just MIGHT reconsider a few things.

I'm just speaking for myself here.

Majority opinion is not always correct.

[Hank Scorpio]

Majority opinion is not always correct.

The moon is made of cheese.

There is no wrong opinion, but history would tell you that you're wrong about this deal.

[Sports Guy]

94% no. Is that the record?

Fire Terry Crowley poll a few years ago had a 99% yes.

[alexei606]

This is the money quote from the article that Scorpio posted:

Small sample warnings continue to abound, but when you look at those numbers in the larger context of Holliday's career, the four-season run I detailed above, and his all-around excellence and athleticism, it seems Holliday is indeed worth the financial commitment the Cardinals have made to him.

This goes with JTrea's reasoning of Holliday being a "gym rat" and worth the years and money due to that and his ability.

The author continues with this quote:

Still, the success of the Holliday contract depends as much on Pujols as Holliday. If for any reason the Cardinals come up short in their efforts to retain Prince Albert, Holliday will get the blame, and it will make the fallout from his Division Series gaffe this October feel like a paper cut by comparison.

To me, though true for the Cardinals, it is not true for the Orioles, who have no Pujols to sign and thus, Holliday would not be a goat. That said, I think that the Cardinals were dead set on retaining Holliday (mainly because of Pujols) and the Orioles had no real shot of beating this offer unless significantly overpaying. Thus, I think that the contract is worth it but I don't think that significantly overpaying that contract would have been and that means McPhail was right not to bid, IMO.

As an aside, Mozeliak in IMO, is not a good GM, he is between a rock and a hard place. The Cardinals needed to resign Holliday to even have a chance of resigning Pujols. So, Wainwright and Carpenter are also going to have be resigned (big $s), and their hope is that Freese is decent at 3B and Rasmus breaks out. Somehow, the Cardinals are going to have to get some real bargains to continue the run, or get a big revenue boost (not likely), or they will waste the big contracts.

In contrast, the Orioles have both the monetary and player flexibility (ML and MiL) to have handled this type of contract. So, I would hope that McPhail pulls the trigger on something like this next year. Of course, not for someone that another team is desperate to retain as the Cardinals were with Holliday.