International FAILURES Continue...

[Moose Milligan]

The bottom line is this just isn't a big deal to the Orioles...or at least not as big a deal as it should be.

No one can tell me any different.

They just don't see this is a priority.

Just another reason we are miles behind Boston and NY.

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I'd like to know where to find (cause I honestly don't) what the presence is of Boston and NY in the Dominican. And while we're here, Minnesota, too.

[Mackus]

The bottom line is this just isn't a big deal to the Orioles...or at least not as big a deal as it should be.

No one can tell me any different.

They just don't see this is a priority.

Just another reason we are miles behind Boston and NY.

Everyone would like to see them spend more Internationally, there is obviously no doubt about that.

But, lets consider an actual thought experiment rather than just saying "go spend more!" because "go spend more!" isn't really a realistic option, that money has to come from somewhere else.

Let's just say our entire budget for the draft and international signings is X. What percent of X should we spend on the draft and what percent should we spend internationally?

And, for both the draft and internationally, would you prefer a few bigger investments or spreading the money out and getting a lot of lower money investments? You can answer separately for both the draft and international here.

I find these questions to be both relevant and interesting. And I don't know how I would answer either right now.

[Stotle]

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I'd like to know where to find (cause I honestly don't) what the presence is of Boston and NY in the Dominican. And while we're here, Minnesota, too.

Last I heard Boston had 14 scouts in the DR. Not sure what NYA has, or if the BOS number is still accurate. Also, glimpsing at this year's Top 10 prospects by BA, the Yankees acquired four of their ten through international signings in Latin America.

EDIT -- Ooops, sorry. Didn't see Frobby already posted the BA numbers.

[Sports Guy]

Everyone would like to see them spend more Internationally, there is obviously no doubt about that.

But, lets consider an actual thought experiment rather than just saying "go spend more!" because "go spend more!" isn't really a realistic option, that money has to come from somewhere else.

Let's just say our entire budget for the draft and international signings is X. What percent of X should we spend on the draft and what percent should we spend internationally?

And, for both the draft and internationally, would you prefer a few bigger investments or spreading the money out and getting a lot of lower money investments? You can answer separately for both the draft and international here.

I find these questions to be both relevant and interesting. And I don't know how I would answer either right now.

This team can also spend more on the ML budget...and since they aren't doing that, they could pour more money into draft and international talent.

I don't buy this budget stuff.

The Orioles just don't care enough about this.

They never cared in the past...AM cares more but he isn't doing anything to really get it going.

This is a huge failure on his part...not sure how anyone could even remotely dispute that.

A polished turd is still a turd.

[Can_of_corn]

Everyone would like to see them spend more Internationally, there is obviously no doubt about that.

But, lets consider an actual thought experiment rather than just saying "go spend more!" because "go spend more!" isn't really a realistic option, that money has to come from somewhere else.

Let's just say our entire budget for the draft and international signings is X. What percent of X should we spend on the draft and what percent should we spend internationally?

And if your major league payroll was Y four years ago and now its y-40,000,000 then I am pretty sure you can afford to spend X+4,000,000 on the draft and international signings.

[bird watcher]

Everyone would like to see them spend more Internationally, there is obviously no doubt about that.

But, lets consider an actual thought experiment rather than just saying "go spend more!" because "go spend more!" isn't really a realistic option, that money has to come from somewhere else.

Let's just say our entire budget for the draft and international signings is X. What percent of X should we spend on the draft and what percent should we spend internationally?

And, for both the draft and internationally, would you prefer a few bigger investments or spreading the money out and getting a lot of lower money investments? You can answer separately for both the draft and international here.

I find these questions to be both relevant and interesting. And I don't know how I would answer either right now.

I can tell you now that if "the budget" is cited as the reason we don't have more scouts down there, there aren't a whole lot of fans in the know that will buy that BS. There is NO excuse for that in my opinion.

[Mackus]

And if your major league payroll was Y four years ago and now its y-40,000,000 then I am pretty sure you can afford to spend X+4,000,000 on the draft and international signings.

That's fair, but would you then be happy if we stop spending on the draft and internationally once the payroll goes to y+whatever?

I think it'd be interesting to step away from just the "let's spend more" argument. I mean, we ridicule guys like MSK who screams that every time he posts about the MLB team, why isn't it ridiculous to say that about the international effort?

I think it'd actually be interesting to talk about how the best way to split up your international and draft budget money would be. I know you can make exceptions and go over your intended budget if a particularly enticing option comes up, but for the most part, the team will spend as much as they plan on spending heading into the draft and international signing period.

[Mackus]

I can tell you now that if "the budget" is cited as the reason we don't have more scouts down there, there aren't a whole lot of fans in the know that will buy that BS. There is NO excuse for that in my opinion.

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about how much we'll spend to sign International FAs and draft picks. I feel that the budget of hiring a handful of scouts and putting them up in the DR is probably a rounding error compared to the amount of money spent to sign the actual players.

I agree there is little excuse for still having so few scouts around the world. That seems like an easy fix to me, although of course the intricacies of setting something like that up are completely unknown to me.

[Mike B]

I usually defend the organization but this is hard to defend. Is it a case of AM, and Stockstill missing the boat or not enough $$$$ being commited by the a certain owner. AM has become the visual for all to look at, but without the financial commitment you pick your spots. Their have been some strange and low profile moves, like selling players that make me wonder. PGA's fingerprints are still all over this team IMO.

[Stotle]

That's fair, but would you then be happy if we stop spending on the draft and internationally once the payroll goes to y+whatever?

I think it'd be interesting to step away from just the "let's spend more" argument. I mean, we ridicule guys like MSK who screams that every time he posts about the MLB team, why isn't it ridiculous to say that about the international effort?

I think it'd actually be interesting to talk about how the best way to split up your international and draft budget money would be. I know you can make exceptions and go over your intended budget if a particularly enticing option comes up, but for the most part, the team will spend as much as they plan on spending heading into the draft and international signing period.

Isn't a small 4-team league showcasing young Dominican talent be just about the most cost-effective way to scout that region? Of course assuming Arangure's blog was accurate, it looks like BAL is just not interested in what's going on there (as Sports Guy stated). Maybe the article is inacurrate. But if it's not, then BAL's approach seems to be 1) Don't throw around lots of money, and 2) don't make use of the cheapest and easiest scouting venues.

I'm not sure what the silver lining is there. Even if you take Hoosiers's view that the thrity-some signed talents could turn out some players, you're still blatantly ignorin opportunities that other organizations are gladly taking advantage of.

[Mackus]

Of course assuming Arangure's blog was accurate, wouldn't a small 4-team league showcasing young Dominican talent be just about the most cost-effective way to scout that region?

Yes, absolutely.

[Tony-OH]

See this is an area where AM haters should be focusing their negativity. We simply do not appear to be doing near enough. Granted, we do not get all the information in regards to our international efforts but I can now count two articles discussing us lacking in our international efforts. There is no excuse for this whatsoever. I would love to understand why we do not have a regular presence at these games.

The O's should be all over this. I think AM has had plenty of time at this point to have made a bigger impact internationally. Inexcusable.

The Dominican is one area where AM has his hands tied a bit. The guys who have been running the DR department for years are very entrenched with let's say, "upper management."

I've been told a lot so of stories that I can't really get into, but let's just say none of this surprises me. The guys running the show down there have been running it this way for years and years and it's the reason why no matter how many "better facilities" we build our DR talent train is not going to improve until we clean house.

[Can_of_corn]

That's fair, but would you then be happy if we stop spending on the draft and internationally once the payroll goes to y+whatever?

I would hope by that time that the O's revenue would be Z+A and they could afford to do both. If push comes to shove however I would be happier with more money spent on development and less at the major league talent since young=cheap.

As for your point about how to allocate resources, I did not comment because I do not trust my knowlege of the young international market to the extent that I think my opinions have much merit.

[JTrea81]

The Dominican is one area where AM has his hands tied a bit. The guys who have been running the DR department for years are very entrenched with let's say, "upper management."

I've been told lot so of stories that I can't really get into, but let's just say none of this surprises me. The guys running the show down there have been running it this way for years and years and it's the reason why no matter how many "better facilities" we build our DR talent train is not going to improve until we clean house.

But where? If the President of Baseball Ops can't do anything about it, I assume you mean a change of ownership...

And that makes me wonder if Angelos isn't letting MacPhail have autonomy down there, this whole thing just might be the biggest ruse for Orioles fans after all...

[Peace21]

The Dominican is one area where AM has his hands tied a bit. The guys who have been running the DR department for years are very entrenched with let's say, "upper management."

I've been told lot so of stories that I can't really get into, but let's just say none of this surprises me. The guys running the show down there have been running it this way for years and years and it's the reason why no matter how many "better facilities" we build our DR talent train is not going to improve until we clean house.

You nailed it. I have heard the same things.