MacPhail:"this week we would put the finishing touches on" the roster."

[Gallo0817]

Joe Crede: 1.9 WAR

Adam Jones: 2.1 WAR

Nolan Reimold: 1.2 WAR

These players had roughly the same amount of playing time. Joe Crede would have been are 4th best player in 2009 in terms of WAR and his value is in his defense, which gives our pitching staff a chance to get out of the bottom of the AL. What's the problem with a two win player keeping the seat warm on a cheap one year deal?

[Gallo0817]

I just don't understand why Frobby is being so one sided when he speaks of Crede's game. He always has a good glove and some times a great one. He is cheap and on a one year deal we could do alot worse, like Atkins....

[Frobby]

Joe Crede: 1.9 WAR

Adam Jones: 2.1 WAR

Nolan Reimold: 1.2 WAR

These players had roughly the same amount of playing time. Joe Crede would have been are 4th best player in 2009 in terms of WAR and his value is in his defense, which gives our pitching staff a chance to get out of the bottom of the AL. What's the problem with a two win player keeping the seat warm on a cheap one year deal?

I just don't understand why Frobby is being so one sided when he speaks of Crede's game. He always has a good glove and some times a great one. He is cheap and on a one year deal we could do alot worse, like Atkins....

I just don't like his bat. I've mentioned his pretty solid WAR based mostly on his glove in several other threads. Like here:

Like I said, I'm not high on Crede at this stage of his career, but I think people are being a bit too dismissive of his overall value when defense is considered.

Melmo was an 0.9 WAR player in 2009, projected for 1.1 in 2010

Wiggy was a -0.3 WAR player in 2009, projected for 0.3 in 2010

Crede was a 1.9 WAR player in 2009, projected for 1.7 in 2010

Crede would be an upgrade at 3B when you consider to total package. Of course, his ability to stay healthy is a big issue.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2025723&highlight=Crede#post2025723

And if the O's had gotten more of a reliable bopper for 1B, I'd be happy with a glove-first 3B. It's mainly that I don't like the Atkins-Crede combo because there's no reliable offense at either spot.

Believe me, if the O's acquire Crede, by Opening Day I will have convinced myself that it will all work out.

[GoldGlove21]

In defense of Frobby, why is Crede being cheap even a factor? It is not our money and it's not like the decision to sign Crede is holding up the addition of a 4-5 WAR player at a position of need. As a fan I want the best player possible on a one year deal (Assuming the Orioles are only interested in a year). The Orioles issue seems to be two fold for me. We are looking at signing Crede after signing Atkins. Those are two big question marks to run out there every night. If Atkins does well then we pickup a $7.5M option on him and he either blocks Bell or Snyder.

This setup leaves the Orioles with Crede, Atkins, and Itzturis locking down the lower part of the batting order. I would be pulling for these guys, but those three are not likely to scare anyone.

[NCRaven]

If Atkins does well then we pickup a $7.5M option on him and he either blocks Bell or Snyder.

Not true, this is a team option, not a vesting option. No matter how well Atkins does, it is up to the team whether to bring him back or not. They can simply pay him the buyout amount ($500k, IIRC) and let him go. To get the option, not only must Atkins do well, Snyder or Bell must do so poorly that the FO decides that Atkins is a better option. So, Atkins would not be blocking them, they will have failed to seize a very available opportunity.

[GoldGlove21]

Not true, this is a team option, not a vesting option. No matter how well Atkins does, it is up to the team whether to bring him back or not. They can simply pay him the buyout amount ($500k, IIRC) and let him go. To get the option, not only must Atkins do well, Snyder or Bell must do so poorly that the FO decides that Atkins is a better option. So, Atkins would not be blocking them, they will have failed to seize a very available opportunity.

I knew that, if he performs well you have to like the chances of his option getting picked up. You have to like Atkins chances of getting picked up after performing well in 2010 more than the chances that both Snyder and Bell will have pushed him out after stellar years in the minors. Putting all this stock in Bell and Snyder is kind of ridiculous at this point. Bell has a hard time hitting lefties and Snyder struggled at AAA following his promotion from AA. I think the Orioles can get into some real trouble if they keep putting all of their eggs in the prospect basket.

[JTrea81]

Believe me, if the O's acquire Crede, by Opening Day I will have convinced myself that it will all work out.

Here's the beauty of this, you don't have to nor should you. You are allowed to think MacPhail's plan isn't solid for the corners this season and beyond.

You are absolutely right in saying that MacPhail should have done better than what he is going to put at the corners.

I don't get why he's not trying to improve there when he said this season was about wins and losses, or at least for Trembley it was.

[El Gordo]

Another thing in Crede's favor is that most of his AB were pre-ASB. 252 0f his 333 AB came before and he posted a .749 OPS with 14 HR and 40 RBI's. So as long as he's healthy he hits much better than his full season numbers would indicate. The only question in my mind is his health. Hopefully that won't be a factor if Bell is reay by mid July.

[GoldGlove21]

Another thing in Crede's favor is that most of his AB were pre-ASB. 252 0f his 333 AB came before and he posted a .749 OPS with 14 HR and 40 RBI's. So as long as he's healthy he hits much better than his full season numbers would indicate. The only question in my mind is his health. Hopefully that won't be a factor if Bell is reay by mid July.

I agree, but if I were signing a guy to a one year deal I would prefer to feel confident that he could actually play the whole year. It is only my opinion, but I feel that there were just too many third basemen looking for work and that the Orioles needed one about as much as anyone. To end up with Crede who the front office seemed to signal out as a cheap and willing sign early-on really upsets me.

[El Gordo]

I agree, but if I were signing a guy to a one year deal I would prefer to feel confident that he could actually play the whole year. It is only my opinion, but I feel that there were just too many third basemen looking for work and that the Orioles needed one about as much as anyone. To end up with Crede who the front office seemed to signal out as a cheap and willing sign early-on really upsets me.

He hasn't signed yet so I don't see how you can say he was willing to sign early on. He's a Boras client remember. I don't think the FO is ineterested in him because he's cheap, I think they value his glove. He is a 2 WAR defender. None of the other options come close, except Figgins and Beltre. Given our poor defense last season and the need for good D to support the young pitching, Crede makes a lot of sense. Again, they are very careful when it comes to issues of health. If they weren't confident he could give us the playing time we need, they wouldn't be pursuing him.

[Moose Milligan]

Here's the beauty of this, you don't have to nor should you. You are allowed to think MacPhail's plan isn't solid for the corners this season and beyond.

You are absolutely right in saying that MacPhail should have done better than what he is going to put at the corners.

I don't get why he's not trying to improve there when he said this season was about wins and losses, or at least for Trembley it was.

Frobby's an overall positive guy.

[GoldGlove21]

He hasn't signed yet so I don't see how you can say he was willing to sign early on. He's a Boras client remember. I don't think the FO is ineterested in him because he's cheap, I think they value his glove. He is a 2 WAR defender. None of the other options come close, except Figgins and Beltre. Given our poor defense last season and the need for good D to support the young pitching, Crede makes a lot of sense. Again, they are very careful when it comes to issues of health. If they weren't confident he could give us the playing time we need, they wouldn't be pursuing him.

I REALLY think that him being a cheap option is playing a huge factor in our interest in him. If Crede's value in his glove then the downside should be in his back. We would essentially be looking to sign a third baseman who had back issues last season and has a history of injuries to go along with below average offensive numbers at the position. If the Orioles sign him to a $6M deal then my mindset about the money being a factor will be invalid. If he signs a $2M-3M deal with incentives then I stay the course with my mindset. When Andy made the coment about letting the market play out it seemed that he was refering to allowing prices of free agent players to get driven down.

The Orioles are a very cheap organization IMO. I think we will continue to sign fan favorites like Markakis and Roberts, but I do not see any free agent deals for more than 2 years in our near future.

[El Gordo]

I REALLY think that him being a cheap option is playing a huge factor in our interest in him. If Crede's value in his glove then the downside should be in his back. We would essentially be looking to sign a third baseman who had back issues last season and has a history of injuries to go along with below average offensive numbers at the position. If the Orioles sign him to a $6M deal then my mindset about the money being a factor will be invalid. If he signs a $2M-3M deal with incentives then I stay the course with my mindset. When Andy made the coment about letting the market play out it seemed that he was refering to allowing prices of free agent players to get driven down.

The Orioles are a very cheap organization IMO. I think we will continue to sign fan favorites like Markakis and Roberts, but I do not see any free agent deals for more than 2 years in our near future.

Read this and get back to me. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/crede-flying-under-the-radar-again I think your reasoning is very muddled. The cheap business is a tired old whine. If they weren't high on Bell they would have gone after Beltre and Figgins. I doubt they would have gone after LaRoche for the 2 years it would have taken to get him here, even if they didn't like Snyder better, because there are too many better 1B options in FA 2011-2012.

[Stacey]

Here's the beauty of this, you don't have to nor should you. You are allowed to think MacPhail's plan isn't solid for the corners this season and beyond.

You are absolutely right in saying that MacPhail should have done better than what he is going to put at the corners.

I don't get why he's not trying to improve there when he said this season was about wins and losses, or at least for Trembley it was.

I'm so glad you've given Frobby (and the rest of us) permission to not agree with Andy MacPhail. It's just what I've been waiting for.

[anselmO]

As many posters have argued, why not just stick Luke Scott at 1B?

Luke Scott at 1B stands out as the best possible scenario for this team in 2010.

I'm baffled by MacPhail's approach to the corners this offseason.

1. He says that he really likes Felix Pie but wants to add Joe Crede, who would effectively take Pie out of the everyday lineup. That IMO is a huge mistake. Pie should ABSOLUTELY play as much as possible in 2010.

2. He actively pursued and landed a third-basemen in Garrett Atkins who is in the midst of a downward spiral. It later comes out that his intention was to bring him in for 1B. That is strange considering guys like LaRoche were still on the board and the strategy was to let the market 'percolate.' A guy who hit .226 last year is not a guy to actively pursue especially for 1B. I don't necessarily disagree with the signing but the timing of it is very odd to me.

3. The addition of Crede would put another black hole in to the bottom of the order. Everyone remembers how awful the 7-8-9 spots were last April with Zaun-Pie-Izturis. A repeat performance with Atkins-Crede-Izturis is definitely NOT what this team needs to get off to a good start this year.

4. AM doesn't seem to be concerned with Crede's health. That is strange since he's got a relative down scouting Carlos Delgado. Crede has got just of good a chance or even better to be injured this season.

Stick Luke at 1B this spring and watch him play a respectable 1B this season and hit .275 and jack 30 bombs.

Let Felix play everyday and let him continue to develop into a superstar.

DH Reimold and put him in LF against left-handers.