MacPhail: Miggy won't play any SS

[Frobby]

Let me put it this way, I'd be more concerned about finding a capable backup for Izturis than I would be about finding one for Markakis or Tejada.

You've only got so many resources, I think I'd focus them more on making sure I've got good contingency plans if someone like Izturis goes down than if someone more durable like Tejada goes down.

Hard to disagree with you there.

[TyCobb]

And he was almost as good in 2008 as Izzy was in 2009...Again, poor reasoning.

In 7477.1 ip Izturis is a 5.4 UZR/150

In around 11,000 ip Tejada is a -4.7 UZR/150

Tejada has been way below average for most of his career. He has had -14.8, -12.9, -8, -7.1, and -13.9.

The -13.9 came last year where ever scout in the world said Tejada lost step and more in the field.

Only you bring up a fluke year as if it had a good chance of happening again.

[Sports Guy]

In 7477.1 ip Izturis is a 5.4 UZR/150

In around 11,000 ip Tejada is a -4.7 UZR/150

Tejada has been way below average for most of his career. He has had -14.8, -12.9, -8, -7.1, and -13.9.

The -13.9 came last year where ever scout in the world said Tejada lost step and more in the field.

Only you bring up a fluke year as if it had a good chance of happening again.

I never said it would happen again...but nice try. Try reading and understanding.

All I am saying is that when looking at one year's worth of data, anything can happen.

And your reasoning is still poor...he was still worth more because of his offense...So, him as a replacement for Izzy 25-40 games a year helps us more than Andino being out there.

[NCRaven]

Name another team who's starting 3B actually can play a decent SS.

Its not exactly a conventional solution, but dismissing something as a bad idea primarily because it is non-conventional is obviously incredibly meek logic.

There are some legitimate reasons why Tejada shouldn't be the primary SS backup, and those can be discussed, but "nobody else does it" absolutely is not a legitimate reason to avoid using Tejada as the backup SS.

One of the knocks on Tejada is that he no longer plays a decent shortstop. I understand that "nobody else does it" isn't an absolute excuse for not doing something. But, it is an indicator that the something is not the norm. And, if MacPhail was suggesting that we not do something that is usually done, I could understand it being called "stupid." When he suggests that we are going to do something that is perfectly within the norm of baseball operations, it's extreme to call it anything other than the regular way of doing business.

I think we fall in love with our imaginative solutions to problems that don't really exist. Also, to say that Tejada will only be here for a year so it doesn't matter if we screw around with him and move him back and forth is also unreasonable. I'm sure he wanted some kind of assurances about what his role would be before he signed here, or he would have taken the other offer as a starting SS.

So, I'm not against taking a non-traditional approach to how the game is played or the roster is managed. I'm just against calling anyone stupid who operates within the generally accepted norms of his business. And that's what MacPhail is doing.

[TyCobb]

I nevcer said it would happen again...but nice try. Try reading and understanding.

All I am saying is that when looking at one year's worth of data, anything can happen.

And your reasoning is still poor...he was still worth more because of his offense...So, him as a replacement for Izzy 25-40 games a year helps us more than Andino being out there.

Tejada was worth -4 runs for his combined Batting and Fielding.

Izturis was worth -6.8 runs for his combined Batting and Fielding.

So they were extremely close value last season.

Tejada is not and should not go from 3b to SS back to 3b. Moving him from 3b/SS during the season will only cause Tejada to perform worse at both positions.

Also moving Tejada to SS with hurt the infield defense even more as Atkins and Wiggy (beyond terrible) are both bad fielding 3b.

Tejada has the chance to be a great fielding 3b if giving the chance. Moving him to SS will make the Left side of the infield great to terrible.

[Sports Guy]

Tejada was worth -4 runs for his combined Batting and Fielding.

Izturis was worth -6.8 runs for his combined Batting and Fielding.

So they were extremely close value last season.

Tejada is not and should not go from 3b to SS back to 3b. Moving him from 3b/SS during the season will only cause Tejada to perform worse at both positions.

Also moving Tejada to SS with hurt the infield defense even more as Atkins and Wiggy (beyond terrible) are both bad fielding 3b.

Tejada has the chance to be a great fielding 3b if giving the chance. Moving him to SS will make the Left side of the infield great to terrible.

LOL...Tejada really doesn't have much of a chance to make the left side defense GREAT.

It will take at least half the season for him to adjust and he won't be an Oriole for too much longer after that.

The orioles should maximize their roster and have the best players they can..Andino doesn't count for that.

[TyCobb]

Tejada was a -13.9 UZR last season at SS. Tejada should only play SS in emergency situation (Izturis and his backup get hurt).

And he was almost as good in 2008 as Izzy was in 2009...Again, poor reasoning.

In 7477.1 ip Izturis is a 5.4 UZR/150

In around 11,000 ip Tejada is a -4.7 UZR/150

Tejada has been way below average for most of his career. He has had -14.8, -12.9, -8, -7.1, and -13.9.

The -13.9 came last year where ever scout in the world said Tejada lost step and more in the field.

Only you bring up a fluke year as if it had a good chance of happening again.

I never said it would happen again...but nice try. Try reading and understanding.

All I am saying is that when looking at one year's worth of data, anything can happen.

And your reasoning is still poor...he was still worth more because of his offense...So, him as a replacement for Izzy 25-40 games a year helps us more than Andino being out there.

BTW, you are the one that needs to improving your reading skills.

[Sports Guy]

BTW, you are the one that needs to improving your reading skills.

How so...My original post towards you was after YOU mentioned ONE YEAR'S worth of data...You can't even follow the conversation that YOU are having! :rofl:

[El Gordo]

Andino got 198 at bats last year. There is not reason to think that he will not get about 200 this year. And there is no reason to believe he will do better then his career 556 OPS.

I am not saying the MacPhail is wrong in keeping Miggy at 3B. I just think that between Izturis and Andino the O's have a drag on the offense in the SS spot. Miggy might have helped that.

I can think of one. Izzy won't have appendicitis this season.:laughlol:

[TyCobb]

LOL...Tejada really doesn't have much of a chance to make the left side defense GREAT.

It will take at least half the season for him to adjust and he won't be an Oriole for too much longer after that.

The orioles should maximize their roster and have the best players they can..Andino doesn't count for that.

A-Rod went from full-time SS to full-time 3b and his best season at 3b was his 1st season there.

Tejada has a very strong arm (just as good as Rolen). It will be known by the end of spring training whether or not Tejada has the reaction time to be great at 3rd.

By moving Tejada to SS for backup duty, the O's would only hurt the overall infield teams defense because NOBODY on the roster is a good fielding 3rd baseman.

[RShack]

We're basically arguing about the 25th man here. Of all the things to worry about, that's about #25 on my list. The last several roster slots are replaceable spare parts who don't matter much.

[Frobby]

Tejada was worth -4 runs for his combined Batting and Fielding.

Izturis was worth -6.8 runs for his combined Batting and Fielding.

So they were extremely close value last season.

Not really. Miggy was worth 2.6 WAR or $11.6 mm, Izzy was worth 1.3 WAR or $5.8 mm. But you knew that, since you got your data from the same place I got mine. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=400&type=6&season=2009&month=0

[TyCobb]

Not really. Miggy was worth 2.6 WAR or $11.6 mm, Izzy was worth 1.3 WAR or $5.8 mm. But you knew that, since you got your data from the same place I got mine. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=400&type=6&season=2009&month=0

You understand that the other parts in WAR that I am not including are based on playing time. (Izturis freak injury hurts his WAR)

[Sports Guy]

You understand that the other parts in WAR that I am not including are based on playing time. (Izturis freak injury hurts his WAR)

Maybe..and maybe if he played everyday, his defense would have suffered as the season went on.

Everyone assumes that Izzy would have had a much higher WAR had he been healthy but that's not neccassarily true.

[TyCobb]

Maybe..and maybe if he played everyday, his defense would have suffered as the season went on.

Everyone assumes that Izzy would have had a much higher WAR had he been healthy but that's not neccassarily true.

It isn't necessarily true, but there was a decent chance Izzy could have been worth each or the same based on WAR.

The major point to remember is that Tejada looked really, really bad in the field. His movement has been getting worst and lots of scouts saw it coming.

Tejada has a very strong arm. We will find out how good his reaction time is because if it is good...I have no doubts Tejada will be a quailty 3b in the field.

A strong defense will surely help our pitchers. And I for one think we should give our young pitchers a strong defensive team.