Tillman

[George]

I'm surprised that Tillman's place on the 2010 team is under discussion. It's a no-brainer that Tillman will be on the team, barring a poor March or an injury. Every O's fan should be excited about watching Tillman pitch this year. I looked forward to his games for a brief period last season and would be disappointed not to see him pich agian this year. Can't imagine Tillman isn't pitching in April.

[Frobby]

The idea that guys like Tillman and Pie will/should get their oppurtunities because of injuries and/or poor performance is so poor. They shouldn't need that to happen.

People are so wrapped up in the win total that they aren't looking at the big picture...and besides, the Orioles are better with the young guys than the vets anyway.

Tillman had a 4.50 ERA before his last 2 starts and it was 4.71 before his last start.

I felt the Orioles should have shut Tillman down sooner and those last 2 starts, where he struggled, may have shown me(and many many others) to be right.

Its hard for me to agree with Tony when he said:

I just disagree with this...He was pitching like a 4/5 starter...as a 21 year old and he ended up with a poor ERA because the Orioles didn't shut him down early enough.

I think people get this idea in their heads that these guys need to come up here right away and be very good players, whether they are pitchers or hitters.

There is an adjustment period..they are going to struggle from time to time, especially at the end of the year, pitching more innings than they have ever pitched and pitching later in the season than they have ever pitched before.

I agree we probably left Tillman out there 1-2 starts too long, but couldn't you say the same for Hernandez and Berken? Look at the September ERAs for all three and its apparent they were all sucking win towards the end.

[DuffMan]

Why is that just b/c there is a report/rumor out there that we may have interest in Washburn and it automatically equals Tillman starting the year in Norfolk. Let's see how the roster shakes out first before we jump to any conclusions.

[Moose Milligan]

Why is that just b/c there is a report/rumor out there that we may have interest in Washburn and it automatically equals Tillman starting the year in Norfolk. Let's see how the roster shakes out first before we jump to any conclusions.

Well if we signed Washburn, who would you send to AAA? Bergy, Matusz?

[Sports Guy]

I agree we probably left Tillman out there 1-2 starts too long, but couldn't you say the same for Hernandez and Berken? Look at the September ERAs for all three and its apparent they were all sucking win towards the end.

Hernandez was 3 years older and threw 21 more innings in 2009 than he did in 2008.

Now, Tillman only threw 26 more innings than he did the year before but he isn't as physically mature as DH.

Berken was 26 and only threw around 7 or 8 more innings than the year before.

[Frobby]

Hernandez was 3 years older and threw 21 more innings in 2009 than he did in 2008.

Now, Tillman only threw 26 more innings than he did the year before but he isn't as physically mature as DH.

Berken was 26 and only threw around 7 or 8 more innings than the year before.

Good point, but I'd venture that the major league innings are more stressful and require more pitches. Tillman was cruising along in AAA while Hernandez and Berken were laboring through major league lineups. I remember a bunch of games where Tillman only threw 80-85 pitches for Norfolk.

[Sports Guy]

Good point, but I'd venture that the major league innings are more stressful and require more pitches. Tillman was cruising along in AAA while Hernandez and Berken were laboring through major league lineups. I remember a bunch of games where Tillman only threw 80-85 pitches for Norfolk.

Well that's fine but again, the age difference is huge and really, DH and Berken, at their ages, should have been in the majors.

[berto]

There is no reason to start him at Norfolk he has proven he can dominate down there. He now needs to learn how to pitch to Major League hitters and continue to develop and adjust against them. There is no point in starting him down there. I feel like this will be an Adrian Gonzalez type thread until opening day.

[DrungoHazewood]

I have made this point a few times, but Tillman had by far the most AAA innings of any of our pitchers who debuted in 2009. He showed more potential than either Hernandez or Berken in his major league performances IMO (though his stats were similar to Hernandez's). I see no reason to start him in AAA unless he absolutely stinks this spring, which I very much doubt.

I also think that, after four months of offseason, we've all run out of things to say. This subject has been discussed to death. So has everything else. Get those pitchers and catchers down to Sarasota, already!

I have to think the recent rumbling is just standard issue spring stuff to let the kids know they have to focus on their jobs and not go out drinking with 18-year-old spring break girls every night. Subtle message that a 7.53 ERA isn't going to cut it, and he can get sent to AAA if he's not on top of things.

But as long as he's not goofing off I see absolutely no reason for Chris Tillman to start the year in AAA.

[DrungoHazewood]

Well if we signed Washburn, who would you send to AAA? Bergy, Matusz?

Well, I'd rather have Washburn than Ohman or Hendrickson. Not that that would ever happen...

[backwardsk]

Well, I'd rather have Washburn than Ohman or Hendrickson. Not that that would ever happen...

For the bullpen? After reading on here about the reports on Washburn's arm (shoulder I think), I'd much rather have Hendrickson.

[byrdz]

Seems like Bergesen is more likely to struggle than Tillman anyway. Just from all the time he's missed and the inevitable regression. I'd expect some rust in the beginning at least.

[RShack]

Tillman did a lot better than some people seem to think. He was 3rd best of anybody on the team at getting to the 6th inning or beyond. Given the way things work, that's nothing to sneeze at. Only Bergy and Guthrie did better at that part. His numbers look a lot worse because he got shelled his last time out. Without that one, he performed at the level of a #4 SP, with a combo of ERA+ and Outs/GS that were just about the same as Matusz. That last one dropped him down to the level of a #5, but that's nothing to just shrug about for a 21 year old in his first dozen GS. All in all, Tillman did fine. Questioning where he belongs is a lot of hand-wringing over nothing. He belongs in the rotation, which is where he's gonna be unless something weird happens.

I don't mean to diss either DH or Berken (especially since I think they both get an unfairly bad rap around here), but Tillman did way better than either one of them did. He got into the 7th twice as frequently as DH did and almost 3 times as frequently as Berken.

[Mike B]

Well if we signed Washburn, who would you send to AAA? Bergy, Matusz?

I have had the feeling tha the Orioles want another veteran starter in the event that one or two of the young guys struggle, either in ST or early in the season.

We will have 3 kids in the rotation, they want a parachute IMO.

[RShack]

Seems like Bergesen is more likely to struggle than Tillman anyway. Just from all the time he's missed and the inevitable regression. I'd expect some rust in the beginning at least.

There's nothing inevitable about it. People talk like Bergy's performance was a fluke. I think a lot of that is because they didn't see it coming. To me, he looked like he knew exactly what he was trying to do and he knew how to do it. He might not do as well, or he might do just as well, or he might do better. Last year, he was bringing his ERA down, month by month. By the end of May, he had settled in, and after that his ERA was something like 2.50 for 2 months and a dozen starts until he got hit by the line drive. Who knows what it would have been by the end if it wasn't for that freak thing stopping his season. We'll see what he does this year, but I'm certainly not betting against him. Not everybody who's good at first turns out to be a mirage. I'm more worried about his leg thing somehow messing him up than I am about the much ballyhooed regression that's supposed to happen because his peripherals said he wasn't supposed to be as good as he actually was. In actual fact, he was excellent anyway, and that's true no matter how un-good his peripherals said he was supposed to be. Last year, even with a so-so first couple months, he still performed like a #1 SP. Until he doesn't, that's his track record. So far, there is no mean to regress to except that.