Sun: 21 roster spots are set going into Spring Training

[mweb]

The ironic thing here is Jtrea has argued for guys that have good gloves all offseason...He has argued why Cameron is as good as Bay...Why Figgins should have been signed...etc....

Now, the Orioles decide they want a good glove as a back up IFer and he gets pissed about it...Pretty funny.

I think it is absurd becuase you have Miggy...No reason to carry Andino IMO but the orioles don't want Miggy going back and forth between SS and 3rd, so you need another SS on the roster.

Well it's obvioulsy about him being anti AM and pro Moore.

To your last comment, defensive replacement is a reason to carry him. Izturis should be pinch hit for consistently imo. So instead of having the poor defense of Miggy at SS and Wigginton at 3B late in games, you can keep Miggy where he is and have good SS defense. And as I said before, it's not like there's really a need for an extra pinch hitter or backup at any position besides SS. How would Moore be used?

[mweb]

It won't be pretty if Izturis gets hurt...

Again, we already knew that. Well assuming they wouldn't move Miggy over there which I think is quite possible depending on how long Cesar is out. Who they pick for that last bench spot has very little impact on how ugly things will be if Izturis is hurt.

[tvz1997]

Jtrea...this is the worst argument you have ever had on here.

SG, I bask in your wrongness!

Again, I point you to the "Tillman is not part of the core because he was not in one certain graphic" thread: http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89714&highlight=tillman

This does go on the greatest hits CD though, hopefully alongside his assertion that both the Sox and Yanks WILL win 100 games this year and that the Os could win 75-80 games but have absolutely zero chance of winning 82.

You know, I could forgive a lot of this nonsense if JTrea had seen something in Moore's actual gameplay that made him more endearing. (Happens to the best of us). Maybe he was actually watching the game when Moore got his one hit with the Os and that made up 3.4% of his lifetime viewing of the Birds, thus swamping his mind with its significance.

[DrungoHazewood]

I didn't bother to wade through all six pages here, but from what I've seen the anti-Andino crowd seems to have glossed over the fact that all of the major projection systems have him with a mid-to-high-600s OPS in 2010. If he has a .675 OPS and fields anything like he did last year he'd be a good regular shortstop. There's certainly a decent argument that his likely performance is worth the 25th slot on the roster, and he clearly brings some assets to the table that someone like Scott Moore doesn't.

[trk001]

Bill James, CHONE and Marcel all project Andino to bat for roughly the same OPS as Izturis this year.

Andino: James - .634 CHONE - .658 Marcel - .675

Izturis: James - .621 CHONE - .635 Marcel - .649

On top of that, Andino got all of 215 plate appearances last year. That's not nearly enough for the front office to have given up on him.

[DrungoHazewood]

Well it's obvioulsy about him being anti AM and pro Moore.

To your last comment, defensive replacement is a reason to carry him. Izturis should be pinch hit for consistently imo. So instead of having the poor defense of Miggy at SS and Wigginton at 3B late in games, you can keep Miggy where he is and have good SS defense. And as I said before, it's not like there's really a need for an extra pinch hitter or backup at any position besides SS. How would Moore be used?

I think there's a good chance there will be many pinch hitting/platooning possibilities at first base. Atkins would have to hit his 90% projections to want him up there all the time against all pitchers in all situations.

[Leitch]

Defense doesn't help you when you are at the plate with runners on base.

Heh, we'll definitely need that help at the plate if Scott Moore's gonna be out there in the field, listing lazily to the left when balls are hit at him

[mweb]

I think there's a good chance there will be many pinch hitting/platooning possibilities at first base. Atkins would have to hit his 90% projections to want him up there all the time against all pitchers in all situations.

If Atkins is playing to the level where Trembley is pinch hitting for him, I don't think Atkins will be starting much longer. Wigginton, Aubrey, Scott, or Snynder would take his place I assume.

Even if Atkins is a guy to be pinch hit for, we still have Wigginton and Pie on the bench as better pinch hitting options than Moore, who likely would only be a better option to hit than Cesar anyway.

[DrungoHazewood]

If Atkins is playing to the level where Trembley is pinch hitting for him, I don't think Atkins will be starting much longer. Wigginton, Aubrey, Scott, or Snynder would take his place I assume.

Even if Atkins is a guy to be pinch hit for, we still have Wigginton and Pie on the bench as better pinch hitting options than Moore, who likely would only be a better option to hit than Cesar anyway.

I guess this isn't going to happen in the real world in 2010 with Trembley managing, but Atkins would almost certainly be more valuable if he sat or was pinch hit for against, like, 50% of righties.

[mweb]

I guess this isn't going to happen in the real world in 2010 with Trembley managing, but Atkins would almost certainly be more valuable if he sat or was pinch hit for against, like, 50% of righties.

Yeah, I don't see that happening unless he really struggles. Also the initial 25 man roster shouldn't take into consideration the possibility of Atkins being bad imo. If he doesn't bounce back, an additional roster move can be made at that time to adjust.

So at the moment, there isn't a reason to plan on him being pinch hit for.

Even if he was platooned, I think that should mean (if we're talking about things we'd like) Scott at 1B and Pie in the OF with Reimold at DH. So even then, what does a Moore type do for you? Wigginton and Atkins would still likely be higher on the pinch hitting pecking order. I guess you could argue that he'd make more sense facing a righty.

[Art Wing]

SG, I bask in your wrongness!

Again, I point you to the "Tillman is not part of the core beacause he has not in one certain graphic" thread: http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89714&highlight=tillman

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

A gem of a thread!

[scOtt]

Andino was worse than a replacement player last season as his horrible bat made him worth -0.3 WAR. Green was at least slightly above replacement level at 0.4 WAR.

We can do so much better.

If the club were to sign Nomar on a minor league deal for example, he would be a major improvement over Andino.

You cannot say this team is committed to winning if Andino makes it north with the team without him having a monster spring.

Izturis is injury prone, so can you honestly say you'd be okay with Andino full time at SS for a month?

You're an idiot! Nomar is better because he's not on our team! Or that's how you see baseball life.

1. If he's on our team he's no good.

2. If he's on another team he's an upgrade.

Stick that in your WAR pipe and smoke it.

[Millennium]

I'm normally just a guy that hangs in the shadows and reads about my favorite baseball team, but this brings me out to talk. I know my opinion isn't the biggest, or the best, especially due to my post count, but this is getting a little ridiculous.

Andino isn't being kept for his bat. He's not ever going to be brought in as a pinch hitter. You keep a guy like this on your team as a defensive player coming in to play the most important DEFENSIVE position on the diamond. Andino has proven that he can hold up defensively, which is what he is asked to do.

You can't get the 25th guy on your bench because of his bat. You get him because of his glove. And this is even more true when you have a ton of young pitching that will rely on good defense up the middle of the field.

How many booted balls at shortstop have to happen before a Tillman or a Bergesen start worrying what's going to happen when they pitch for groundballs? You think Tillman had homerun issues before? What is going to happen if he doesn't trust his infield?

Just my opinion, of course, but it's getting old watching every other Andino reference turn into a shot against his bat. We know he has a weak bat, but his glove makes up for it in the role he plays on this team.

[JTrea81]

I'm normally just a guy that hangs in the shadows and reads about my favorite baseball team, but this brings me out to talk. I know my opinion isn't the biggest, or the best, especially due to my post count, but this is getting a little ridiculous.

Andino isn't being kept for his bat. He's not ever going to be brought in as a pinch hitter. You keep a guy like this on your team as a defensive player coming in to play the most important DEFENSIVE position on the diamond. Andino has proven that he can hold up defensively, which is what he is asked to do.

You can't get the 25th guy on your bench because of his bat. You get him because of his glove. And this is even more true when you have a ton of young pitching that will rely on good defense up the middle of the field.

How many booted balls at shortstop have to happen before a Tillman or a Bergesen start worrying what's going to happen when they pitch for groundballs? You think Tillman had homerun issues before? What is going to happen if he doesn't trust his infield?

Just my opinion, of course, but it's getting old watching every other Andino reference turn into a shot against his bat. We know he has a weak bat, but his glove makes up for it in the role he plays on this team.

His glove doesn't make up for his weak bat at all.

The Orioles could have signed one of Hairston, Uribe, or Nick Green himself for example, and could have got a lot more value out of that roster spot but they didn't.

This team doesn't have enough talent on the roster to have a defensive replacement taking up one of the spots.

Andino limits what the Orioles can do.

[El Gordo]

His glove doesn't make up for his weak bat at all.

The Orioles could have signed one of Hairston, Uribe, or Nick Green himself for example, and could have got a lot more value out of that roster spot but they didn't.

This team doesn't have enough talent on the roster to have a defensive replacement taking up one of the spots.

Andino limits what the Orioles can do.

Of course it does. He isn't going to be used in situations where his bat is crucial, he will be, in situations where his glove is. None of Hairston, Green or Uribe are as good a fielder. Hairston and Uribe might make sense if youdidn't have Wiggi.