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Or perhaps Gary just doesn't recruit well and/or a lot of players don't want to play for a coach that they see yelling at his players on the bench throughout the game.

So if you agree MD has the resources to be a program like UCONN, Mich St, etc, than you should agree with us. But then you go back to the 20-30 range for some reason.

To answer your last question, probably not that many, but great recruiting and decent to good coaching results in a top 20 program. Or great coaching and good recruiting. Gary brings great coaching and mediocre recruiting.

Because I think that is more realistic...There is a difference between being realistic and obtaining consistency.

I think that is where I differ in this...I am talking year in and year out consistency...Sure, you have years like UNC had this year but generally speaking, they are always right there and come tourney time, a dangerous team. No one can do it every year in a row...Too many guys leaving early for that to happen(and that's just one variable).

And just as we talk about MD for stuff like this, what about some other schools that are "sleeping giants"...like DePaul and St Johns...They are some other programs that could and should be taking huge leaps and be right on par with a MD type program.

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And just as we talk about MD for stuff like this, what about some other schools that are "sleeping giants"...like DePaul and St Johns...They are some other programs that could and should be taking huge leaps and be right on par with a MD type program.

Schools like St. Johns, DePaul, and Houston were once very good programs. But here is the thing, they probably won't be anymore. Back when they were good they would get their cities recruits. Other coaches of big state schools didn't have the recources they have today to reach out to the big cities. So St.Johns would get the best of NY, DePaul the best of Chicago, and Houston the best of southeast Texas.

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Schools like St. Johns, DePaul, and Houston were once very good programs. But here is the thing, they probably won't be anymore. Back when they were good they would get their cities recruits. Other coaches of big state schools didn't have the recources they have today to reach out to the big cities. So St.Johns would get the best of NY, DePaul the best of Chicago, and Houston the best of southeast Texas.

But this is also why MD could struggle...That's why I brought up the top 5 programs.

But these schools also have several reasons as to why they should be better, much like MD.

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Because I think that is more realistic...There is a difference between being realistic and obtaining consistency.

I think that is where I differ in this...I am talking year in and year out consistency...Sure, you have years like UNC had this year but generally speaking, they are always right there and come tourney time, a dangerous team. No one can do it every year in a row...Too many guys leaving early for that to happen(and that's just one variable).

And just as we talk about MD for stuff like this, what about some other schools that are "sleeping giants"...like DePaul and St Johns...They are some other programs that could and should be taking huge leaps and be right on par with a MD type program.

Well I think top 20 is very realistic for MD depending on the coach. The reason being that I'd guess they're a top 20 program when you just consider the factors I mentioned earlier, I'd say they are.

Yeah, DePaul and St Johns may be sleeping giants, but in college sports, the longer you sleep, the smaller you become. Yes, they're in great locations, but they haven't been very relevant in a long time, and they have schools near them that are much better programs now.

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Or perhaps Gary just doesn't recruit well and/or a lot of players don't want to play for a coach that they see yelling at his players on the bench throughout the game.

So if you agree MD has the resources to be a program like UCONN, Mich St, etc, than you should agree with us. But then you go back to the 20-30 range for some reason.

To answer your last question, probably not that many, but great recruiting and decent to good coaching results in a top 20 program. Or great coaching and good recruiting. Gary brings great coaching and mediocre recruiting.

I've always thought that was an issue with recruiting. It takes the right kind of player to play for a coach that screams at his players all the time, especially in this day and age where kids are treated like royalty for being good travel players even before high school.

I agree with your last statement 100%. Williams has always been a great coach who finds a way to get the most from his players, but his recruiting remains below par from the top programs. Getting Jordan Williams though was huge and gives me some hope. He's going to be the best Maryland center ever when it's all said and done.

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I've always thought that was an issue with recruiting. It takes the right kind of player to play for a coach that screams at his players all the time, especially in this day and age where kids are treated like royalty for being good travel players even before high school.

I agree with your last statement 100%. Williams has always been a great coach who finds a way to get the most from his players, but his recruiting remains below par from the top programs. Getting Jordan Williams though was huge and gives me some hope. He's going to be the best Maryland center ever when it's all said and done.

And he wasn't that great of a recruit. But Gary and his staff do a good job of hitting on some of these recruits that aren't that highly regarded.

I don't think he'll be better than Joe Smith either, but maybe more career value depending on how long he stays.

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And he (Jordan Williams) wasn't that great of a recruit. But Gary and his staff do a good job of hitting on some of these recruits that aren't that highly regarded.

I don't think he'll be better than Joe Smith either, but maybe more career value depending on how long he stays.

To his credit, Gary Williams believed Jordan Williams was that great of a recruit.

Gary Williams interview with Eric Prisbell; Feb 5, 2009

This kid Jordan Williams is just starting to break onto the scene. He wasn’t considered “really” good but then he played for John Carroll, a very good coach, the kid really responded. He doesn’t play in a great high school league, but 53 points is a lot of points. And he has been over 40 a bunch of times. He is 6-10, 250, and he has got hands. You can throw him the ball. We have always been our best when we have had someone to throw the ball inside to, Joe Smith, Lonny Baxter, that’s been our best teams here.
Now you said they were top 50 guys [Jordan Williams and James Padgett]. There is no ranking that has them that high.
Well' date=' whatever, just give it a chance for the high school season to go. See where it is. All I know is what Jordan Williams is doing. James Padgett plays for a school that is really good. They won the NY state title last year. He had 17 and 10 against this guy who is supposed to be the best big man in the country, right? So, yeah, I think he is a good player. Whether he is top 50 or not, I don’t know. Every guy has had guys who weren’t ranked who turned out to be pretty good.[/quote']

This is an old interview and there were some really good articles that Prisbell wrote based on the interview before deciding to publish this transcript. It sounds like many of the regular posters in this forum read this back then. But if you haven't, it's a must read!

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Schools like St. Johns, DePaul, and Houston were once very good programs. But here is the thing, they probably won't be anymore. Back when they were good they would get their cities recruits. Other coaches of big state schools didn't have the recources they have today to reach out to the big cities. So St.Johns would get the best of NY, DePaul the best of Chicago, and Houston the best of southeast Texas.

Each of the three schools you mentioned also had legendary coaches who were there for a very long time and built those programs over time. When those coaches retired, the transition didn't go well and the new guys couldn't sustain the success. We're starting to see the same thing happen at Indiana. Schools like Kentucky, Kansas, UNC and UCLA (even though the last two were down this season) have effectively replaced a legendary coach with ones who have also done very well.....for the most part. We'll see if the same happens at Duke when K heads of into the sunset (or finally decides to give the NBA a whirl). The difference between the schools I mentioned is that each one has the history and national following to attract the cream of the crop in coaches....even Indiana still, if they would just finally find the right guy.

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Each of the three schools you mentioned also had legendary coaches who were there for a very long time and built those programs over time. When those coaches retired' date=' the transition didn't go well and the new guys couldn't sustain the success. We're starting to see the same thing happen at Indiana. Schools like Kentucky, Kansas, UNC and UCLA (even though the last two were down this season) have effectively replaced a legendary coach with ones who have also done very well.....for the most part. We'll see if the same happens at Duke when K heads of into the sunset (or finally decides to give the NBA a whirl). The difference between the schools I mentioned is that each one has the history and national following to attract the cream of the crop in coaches....even Indiana still, if they would just finally find the right guy.[/quote']

Indiana has the right guy. It's just going to take some time because Crean will not reel in the five star guys until IU is winning again and that might be two years off. That's why Crean ended up with a 10 year deal. By the time he gets them back into the top 20 or better, he might be recruiting guys who want to know if he will be there when their four years are up. Indiana has very, very strong high school classes in 2011 and 2012 though IU has to split the state with Purdue, Butler and Notre Dame.

Crean built Marquette back to a top 15-20 program and it is just a matter of time before he does it with IU. Indiana is currently battling Georgetown for a top 50 big man, Moses Abraham, and landing Abraham could go a long way in determing whether next year's team is 18+ wins or 14 or 15.

Maryland is a good program, but I do not expect it to be on par with Michigan, Indiana, Michigan State and Ohio State when those schools get it going. Even Purdue and Illinois could have more success over an extended period of time with the right coaches.

Perhaps Maryland could do better with a better overall coach - this being a knock on Williams' recruiting. However, unless that coach views Maryland as a "destination" school and does not leave for greener pastures, Maryland will end up searching for a new coach. That's why Maryland is lucky to have an alumni coach as good as Williams is WANTING to be there. Otherwise, like Self leaving Illinois and Tubby leaving Minn, it's just a transition school.

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Indiana has the right guy. It's just going to take some time because Crean will not reel in the five star guys until IU is winning again and that might be two years off. That's why Crean ended up with a 10 year deal. By the time he gets them back into the top 20 or better, he might be recruiting guys who want to know if he will be there when their four years are up. Indiana has very, very strong high school classes in 2011 and 2012 though IU has to split the state with Purdue, Butler and Notre Dame.

Crean built Marquette back to a top 15-20 program and it is just a matter of time before he does it with IU. Indiana is currently battling Georgetown for a top 50 big man, Moses Abraham, and landing Abraham could go a long way in determing whether next year's team is 18+ wins or 14 or 15.

Maryland is a good program, but I do not expect it to be on par with Michigan, Indiana, Michigan State and Ohio State when those schools get it going. Even Purdue and Illinois could have more success over an extended period of time with the right coaches.

Perhaps Maryland could do better with a better overall coach - this being a knock on Williams' recruiting. However, unless that coach views Maryland as a "destination" school and does not leave for greener pastures, Maryland will end up searching for a new coach. That's why Maryland is lucky to have an alumni coach as good as Williams is WANTING to be there. Otherwise, like Self leaving Illinois and Tubby leaving Minn, it's just a transition school.

Not to Ohio St which isn't a destination program. Nor is Michigan given what they've done the last 15 years or so. Even Indiana and Mich ST are rather questionable there.

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Indiana has the right guy. It's just going to take some time because Crean will not reel in the five star guys until IU is winning again and that might be two years off. That's why Crean ended up with a 10 year deal. By the time he gets them back into the top 20 or better, he might be recruiting guys who want to know if he will be there when their four years are up. Indiana has very, very strong high school classes in 2011 and 2012 though IU has to split the state with Purdue, Butler and Notre Dame.

Crean built Marquette back to a top 15-20 program and it is just a matter of time before he does it with IU. Indiana is currently battling Georgetown for a top 50 big man, Moses Abraham, and landing Abraham could go a long way in determing whether next year's team is 18+ wins or 14 or 15.

Maryland is a good program, but I do not expect it to be on par with Michigan, Indiana, Michigan State and Ohio State when those schools get it going. Even Purdue and Illinois could have more success over an extended period of time with the right coaches.

Perhaps Maryland could do better with a better overall coach - this being a knock on Williams' recruiting. However, unless that coach views Maryland as a "destination" school and does not leave for greener pastures, Maryland will end up searching for a new coach. That's why Maryland is lucky to have an alumni coach as good as Williams is WANTING to be there. Otherwise, like Self leaving Illinois and Tubby leaving Minn, it's just a transition school.

LOL, a comparison to Minnesota. Yeah, it's possibly a transition school for about 5 other jobs in the country. If a coach comes in here and starts doing great things they aren't leaving the premiere conference in America with great facilities and a hotbed recruiting area to go coach at Michigan, Oh St or even Syracuse or Connecticutt.

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Not to Ohio St which isn't a destination program. Nor is Michigan given what they've done the last 15 years or so. Even Indiana and Mich ST are rather questionable there.

OK - whatever. Not sure what more success you expect anywhere than what is going on at Mich State (or where you expect Izzo to go), but I'm sure you know more than I.

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OK - whatever. Not sure what more success you expect anywhere than what is going on at Mich State (or where you expect Izzo to go), but I'm sure you know more than I.

Don't get the hostility here. I didn't say anything about Izzo going anywhere. I don't view Mich ST as a destination school compared to MD, that was my point.

I don't know that a coach who is doing really well at MD would go to Mich ST to replace Izzo. It's possible depending on the coaches preferences, but I don't see it as being likely. Same with Indiana and especially Michigan given their recent struggles.

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Don't get the hostility here. I didn't say anything about Izzo going anywhere. I don't view Mich ST as a destination school compared to MD, that was my point.

I don't know that a coach who is doing really well at MD would go to Mich ST to replace Izzo. It's possible depending on the coaches preferences, but I don't see it as being likely. Same with Indiana and especially Michigan given their recent struggles.

If both MSU and UMd had vacancies, which school do you believe would have better candidates calling for the position?

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