The Great Tillman Debate

[Stotle]

I guess we'll find out, maybe.

Right. The whole idea, though, is that maybe DH reacted differently to regular season games at the ML level in front of tens of thousands of people on national television than he did in AAA or in front of a couple thousand at ST games.

Really isn't a point to dig into since we 1) don't know for sure, and 2) will obviously find out (as you said). My issue was only with your contention that there was no reason to think he might look different in April than he did for 15 innings this spring.

[Sports Guy]

I can't believe the weight being placed on ST performance and the way so many of you are acting like DH is some proven guy and Tillman isn't.

[Hank Scorpio]

I can't believe the weight being placed on ST performance and the way so many of you are acting like DH is some proven guy and Tillman isn't.

Unfortunately, spring training is where jobs are won and lost. A lot of weight is placed on how young guys do in short stints.

They'll both contribute a ton this year, so I'm not going to storm the warehouse if Tillman starts off in Norfolk.

I'd much rather see Tillman than Guthrie, but I'm glad we have lots of competent pitching at the higher levels of the organization.

[eddie83]

How do you know Matusz is?

or David Hernandez?

To say Tillman isn't ready shows a real lack of understanding of how he looked last year and what he accomplished in the minors.

Matusz has command of multiple pitches and is much more polished. Pitching in college didn't hurt him.

Who cares what he accomplished in the minors. I care what happens in Baltimore. Tillman's 1.5 whip from last year and 5.5 innings averaged per start show me he is ready to be in Baltimore Opening Day? How do Tillman's minor league numbers help the Orioles if they don't think he can get MLB hitters out right now. The Majors isn't instructional league. The Yankees and Red Sox don't give a damn what his numbers are they care what kind of stuff he has when facing them. I'm sure Tillman's minor league ERA will have them shaking in their boots. Every flaw in your game gets exposed at the top level.

I actually have faith in baseball executives who up to this point have been right time after time. Last year for crying out loud people wanted Patton up here because he pitched well in AA. Never mind the fact he was coming off of an injury. He was getting AA hitters out my god call him up now! It was Hoey, Liz, Olson etc as well over the years, let's bring them up they are ready.

It's the same story every year. Anytime a player has any level of suucess in the minors let's call them up to Baltimore. Tillman has inconsistent velocity, poor tempo, pitches up in the zone and is 21 years old. Let's throw him to the wolves in the toughest division in all of pro sports and see what happens. Hernandez RIGHT NOW looks better than Tillman according to the people who run the team for a living. I would much rather have Tillman if he is ready pitch in the big leagues right now but according to the organization they don't think he is. Just because the Orioles think Hernandez is the better choice this second doesn't mean he will be better over the longterm.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Who cares what he accomplished in the minors. I care what happens in Baltimore. Tillman's 1.5 whip from last year and 5.5 innings averaged per start show me he is ready to be in Baltimore Opening Day?

Let's stop right here.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2009.shtml

Hernandez had a (slightly) higher ERA, higher WHIP, a walk more per inning and averaged a third of an inning less. He also gave up 2.4 HR/9 versus 2.1 HR/9.

You cannot use Tillman's numbers from last season while completely ignoring Hernandez's.

So Tillman was slightly better in the majors that Hernandez last year. Why should we use a few innings in the spring when players are trying to work things out to make this decision?

[Moose Milligan]

I can't believe the weight being placed on ST performance and the way so many of you are acting like DH is some proven guy and Tillman isn't.

This honestly isn't the biggest deal in the world. I know you absolutely love to rage against the Orioles whenever something like this happen, but it's not like Tillman won't get significant time in Baltimore this year.

May the best pitcher win. Nothing wrong with that.

[Sports Guy]

Matusz has command of multiple pitches and is much more polished. Pitching in college didn't hurt him.

Who cares what he accomplished in the minors. I care what happens in Baltimore. Tillman's 1.5 whip from last year and 5.5 innings averaged per start show me he is ready to be in Baltimore Opening Day? How do Tillman's minor league numbers help the Orioles if they don't think he can get MLB hitters out right now. The Majors isn't instructional league. The Yankees and Red Sox don't give a damn what his numbers are they care what kind of stuff he has when facing them. I'm sure Tillman's minor league ERA will have them shaking in their boots. Every flaw in your game gets exposed at the top level.

I actually have faith in baseball executives who up to this point have been right time after time. Last year for crying out loud people wanted Patton up here because he pitched well in AA. Never mind the fact he was coming off of an injury. He was getting AA hitters out my god call him up now! It was Hoey, Liz, Olson etc as well over the years, let's bring them up they are ready.

It's the same story every year. Anytime a player has any level of suucess in the minors let's call them up to Baltimore. Tillman has inconsistent velocity, poor tempo, pitches up in the zone and is 21 years old. Let's throw him to the wolves in the toughest division in all of pro sports and see what happens. Hernandez RIGHT NOW looks better than Tillman according to the people who run the team for a living. I would much rather have Tillman if he is ready pitch in the big leagues right now but according to the organization they don't think he is. Just because the Orioles think Hernandez is the better choice this second doesn't mean he will be better over the longterm.

LOL..>Freaking hysterical...Care to post the numbers for DH or do you just realize how poor your argument would be if you did?

[Sports Guy]

Let's stop right here.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2009.shtml

Hernandez had a (slightly) higher ERA, higher WHIP, a walk more per inning and averaged a third of an inning less. He also gave up 2.4 HR/9 versus 2.1 HR/9.

You cannot use Tillman's numbers from last season while completely ignoring Hernandez's.

So Tillman was slightly better in the majors that Hernandez last year. Why should we use a few innings in the spring when players are trying to work things out to make this decision?

Beat me to it.

[Sports Guy]

This honestly isn't the biggest deal in the world. I know you absolutely love to rage against the Orioles whenever something like this happen, but it's not like Tillman won't get significant time in Baltimore this year.

May the best pitcher win. Nothing wrong with that.

The best pitcher hasn't won...The best pitcher for a few innings won..There is a big difference.

The idea that Tillman will get his time is meaningless in this debate.

[eddie83]

Let's stop right here.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2009.shtml

Hernandez had a (slightly) higher ERA, higher WHIP, a walk more per inning and averaged a third of an inning less. He also gave up 2.4 HR/9 versus 2.1 HR/9.

You cannot use Tillman's numbers from last season while completely ignoring Hernandez's.

So Tillman was slightly better in the majors that Hernandez last year. Why should we use a few innings in the spring when players are trying to work things out to make this decision?

You honestly believe this decision is about spring training stats? It's about the fact that RIGHT NOW Hernandez is the better option in the Orioles eyes. The Orioles are judging who's stuff is more big league ready at THIS MOMENT not who has the most potential. I pointed out the fact that Tillman didn't set the world on fire while he was here last year. Tillman's performance last year didn't warrant an automatic spot on this years roster.

Hernandez isn't the next Jim Palmer and this choice doesn't indicate that he is. Being the better option for Opening Day 2010 has nothing to with who has the better career 10 years from now.

[Sports Guy]

You honestly believe this decision is about spring training stats? It's about the fact that RIGHT NOW Hernandez is the better option in the Orioles eyes. The Orioles are judging who's stuff is more big league ready at THIS MOMENT not who has the most potential. I pointed out the fact that Tillman didn't set the world on fire while he was here last year. Tillman's performance last year didn't warrant an automatic spot on this years roster.

Hernandez isn't the next Jim Palmer and this choice doesn't indicate that he is. Being the better option for Opening Day 2010 has nothing to with who has the better career 10 years from now.

Your argument is all over the place.

You have made some ridiculous assertion about Tillman not being ready and you used stats from last year to back that up while completely ignoring that DH WAS WORSE...At an older age and with a worse MiL history.

Now, you are talking about ST...Try being consistent in your argument.

[eddie83]

LOL..>Freaking hysterical...Care to post the numbers for DH or do you just realize how poor your argument would be if you did?

Numbers don't get MLB hitters out. DH is better right now to the Orioles. Last years numbers aren't getting MLB hitters out in 2010.

[eddie83]

Your argument is all over the place.

You have made some ridiculous assertion about Tillman not being ready and you used stats from last year to back that up while completely ignoring that DH WAS WORSE...At an older age and with a worse MiL history.

Now, you are talking about ST...Try being consistent in your argument.

What does last year have to do with this year. Is DH not allowed to improve from last year. I don't think either pitcher has proven anything.

[Sports Guy]

So, eddie83, you believe a small sampling of 15 innings should outweigh career stats?

[BillySmith]

You honestly believe this decision is about spring training stats? It's about the fact that RIGHT NOW Hernandez is the better option in the Orioles eyes. The Orioles are judging who's stuff is more big league ready at THIS MOMENT not who has the most potential. I pointed out the fact that Tillman didn't set the world on fire while he was here last year. Tillman's performance last year didn't warrant an automatic spot on this years roster.

Hernandez isn't the next Jim Palmer and this choice doesn't indicate that he is. Being the better option for Opening Day 2010 has nothing to with who has the better career 10 years from now.

Well, there's a good chance DT agrees with you, so at least you have him on your side. Not that that matters to anyone on here. :scratchchinhmm: