The Great Tillman Debate

[Hank Scorpio]

Let's please not pee all over 16 pages of pure Hangout gold.

[Sports Guy]

The difficulties I'm having with your perspective is that I think most of your opinion is stemming from second hand information or general ignorance.

Well, almost every piece of "second hand info" said he is likely to be in the pen...yes, that's where I get a lot of that from...From respected sources. Then, when I saw him pitch last year, i saw exactly what the reports said...Spotty command, inconsistent secondary pitches, inability to go deep into games, etc....if you didn't see those things, that's on you but that's exactkly what happened.

You continue to treat age much more importantly than warranted. Age is a general indicator, like ERA. It is not specific, and it is peculiar for every individual. Some people stop developing physically by 19, others much later. You treat it as though it is the same for everyone. Furthermore, it doesn't appear that you have any firsthand experience or knowledge of human development. Age is much less important than scouting a player's development.

And again, you don't seem to understand how important age is.

If you think that CT was in the rotation until just a few days ago, you're definitely incorrect. It's also a very low estimation of the Orioles' decision making process.

So then you think DT was lying to the media?

Lastly, I just don't think you're basing your posts on what you see, but what others are writing and reporting. Personally, I find it troubling because you are so vehement in your conviction that CT is being wronged, the Orioles are dumb, and DH has so much more to work on. You are way overvaluing stats in your assessment. Stats are a means to augment and clarify scouting. What scouting are you doing in this thread?

Well, you couldn't be more wrong..but thanks for your input.

[SilentJames]

So, Tillman was in the rotation as of 4 days ago but one start by each changes his mind?

That's ridiculous.

Nowhere does it say that! it says that as of TODAY Trembley was talking about Tillman as if he were the number five pitcher, but Hernandez' strong outings have put his name in the running.

But it also states that Hernandez and Berken are likely to make the 12-man staff.

You are looking for something to complain about.

[Icterus galbula]

My family has a word for people who are cranky and unreasonable in the morning: fussbudget. The fussbudgetry in this thread is legendary.

[Sanfran327]

Right..Thanks for proving my point.....Ie putting words into my mouth.

Saying he is clueless as to where I am coming from is not saying he is clueless in general. So, again, thanks for putting words into my mouth.

Hilarious. So, that was a rhetorical "you're clueless" as opposed to a literal one?

"Oh yeah? What's this I hear about you breaking a rake and throwing it in the woods?"

"Whaat?! I didn't break the rake... I was simply testing its durability! Then I placed it in the woods because it's made of wood and I wanted it to be with it's friends!"

[Sports Guy]

Nowhere does it say that! it says that as of TODAY Trembley was talking about Tillman as if he were the number five pitcher, but Hernandez' strong outings have put his name in the running.

But it also states that Hernandez and Berken are likely to make the 12-man staff.

You are looking for something to complain about.

It basically says that Tillman was in the rotation but DH's start the other day may have changed that.

That tells me that one start changed their mind.

[lovetoaster]

My family has a word for people who are cranky and unreasonable in the morning: fussbudget. The fussbudgetry in this thread is legendary.

:laughlol:

Rep for the use of "fussbudget" and the related "fussbudgetry." It has probably been at least a decade since I have heard that word used.

[MurphDogg]

Roch agrees that it is more likely that Hernandez is the guy.

Roch - from reading the Baltimore Sun articles they go right out and claim Tillman is heading back to AAA and Hernandez will be taking the #5 role. Is this just the media making a story or is there any reason to beleive this other than Hernandez' excellent outting?

--------------------------------------------

That isn't official. It's looking more likely now, but not official. - Roch

Sports Guy, why can't you just let somebody have their opinion even if it might be wrong? Who does it hurt? My Dad thinks I am the best too, are you going to call him up and tell him that some of my classmates spend more time in the law library than I do and that their papers are more thoroughly researched than mine are? Why not just agree to disagree? Most people here appreciate the unique insight orioole28 offers and would be annoyed if you goaded him into not posting any more. Of course he has biases, he is upfront about them. If he is sending you nasty messages I'm sure you could take it to the mods rather than engage in a shouting match.

[Kevin Lomax]

Thread lock in 5, 4, 3...

[MurphDogg]

It basically says that Tillman was in the rotation but DH's start the other day may have changed that.

That tells me that one start changed their mind.

That's based on your interpretation of what DT considers to be surprises. Perhaps when he says surprises he is talking about a surprise being a pitcher not named in the open-competition for the fifth starter spot as discussed weeks ago.

[Hank Scorpio]

Here's the big thing:

Let's not jump up and down screaming like it's the end of the world if Hernandez happens to beat Tillman out for the 5th spot.

Last I checked, none of us is Chris Tillman or his agent. And it's not like it's Adam Eaton taking his spot.

Just because the Orioles think DH is a better option at the moment and we don't doesn't make them wrong, it just means we have a difference of opinion. They're privy to a lot more information than we are.

[ChaosLex]

[Tony-OH]

It basically says that Tillman was in the rotation but DH's start the other day may have changed that.

That tells me that one start changed their mind.

Hernandez has pitched pretty well all spring, and if the reports of his command of off speed pitches improving are correct, then I have no problems starting the year with him as the 5th starter, especially since Tillman's command remains suspect.

Tillman probably did come into the spring as the favorite, but unlike you, I believed there was a true competition for the 5th slot.

I disagree with those that say Tillman has nothing left to prove at AAA. The same things were said about Hayden Penn. Tillman is still young and still has immense potential, but he still can work on the command of all his pitches.

[Sports Guy]

Roch agrees that it is more likely that Hernandez is the guy.

Sports Guy, why can't you just let somebody have their opinion even if it might be wrong? Who does it hurt? My Dad thinks I am the best too, are you going to call him up and tell him that some of my classmates spend more time in the law library than I do and that their papers are more thoroughly researched than mine are? Why not just agree to disagree? Most people here appreciate the unique insight orioole28 offers and would be annoyed if you goaded him into not posting any more. Of course he has biases, he is upfront about them. If he is sending you nasty messages I'm sure you could take it to the mods rather than engage in a shouting match.

I am having a discussion...It is more that I am not bowing down to the Orioles and taking their word for everything...That's always the problem around here...if you agree with the Orioles, then everyone is fine...if you don't, people cry.

And I really enjoy hearing ACTUAL INSIGHT from Ooriole28...But insight and crying because someone thinks he is a BP pitcher are 2 different things. Based on things his dad has told me, I know the importance of Ooriole28 in his life and his baseball up bringing...So, I really want to hear the baseball side of things from him.

The other day, DH's father sent me a PM and gave me some actual insight and it was some stuff that was really nice to hear. I appreciated him telling me and told him that i am rooting for his son.

His FATHER is a class act and discusses things about his son in a very reasonable way, especially when you consider that this is his son. Ooriole28 doesn't do that.

There is a difference.

[Tony-OH]

Here's the big thing:

Let's not jump up and down screaming like it's the end of the world if Hernandez happens to beat Tillman out for the 5th spot.

Last I checked, none of us is Chris Tillman or his agent. And it's not like it's Adam Eaton taking his spot.

Just because the Orioles think DH is a better option at the moment and we don't doesn't make them wrong, it just means we have a difference of opinion. They're privy to a lot more information than we are.

Absolutely. If Rick Kranitz and Dave Trembley feel Hernandez is going to have more success right now than Tillman then he should be in the rotation. Besides, the way Guthrie has pitched, they both may be in the rotation by May.