The Great Tillman Debate

[oriole from cal]

So Tillman went from great command before his call up to poor command after his call up last year? Almost instantly?

I doubt there are many AAA hitters that handle Tillman FA/CH combo in the minors. From the lack of reports of Tillman's CH in the minors last year I doubt he even threw it much last year at AAA.

I am happy for DH. Very happy. After looking back it may be the best thing for the O's because Tillman definitely was going to be giving the time to develop as a SP. I don't trust DT as an evaluator of talent so DH may have been force to switch into a BP arm. I think that would have been a foolish thing to do so quickly. DH would have been just as bad as a RP if his SL was as poor as it was last year.

Side note: For you Tony or David's father. Does DH actually throw a CU or is that just what his good SL looks like? PITCHf/x claims he has a CU and SL which he threw each equally. This has been bugging me for a while now.

It's more like a slurve

[mweb]

Well, I am sure you would be ok with whatever the Orioles would do.

No one on here knew Tillman's mechanics were messed up and yet you still endorsed the decision because the Orioles told you so. That's not enough for me.

DH just making it over Tillman because he had a few good weeks is bad...DH making it over Tillman because Tillman is having issues with his mechanics is a totally different story...and its also valid.

From the other side, some don't think we had enough info to bash the O's for this decision or to assume it was based on two starts(1 by each). That stance turned out to be very reasonable.

Of course the argument could have and was made that starting DH made sense otherwise as well, but obviously not everyone is going to agree there.

[mweb]

Solid take from Fangraphs making the argument I just mentioned as the writer didn't seem aware of the mechanics issue.

While the Orioles are not in a position to contend this season, it does not mean that they have to throw all of their best young pitchers into the fire. This is part of the reason they acquired Kevin Millwood. He provides some solidity at the top of the rotation, affording the Orioles as much time as they need to develop the future of their rotation. They’re already using youngsters Matusz and Bergesen, and will likely use Tillman, only 22 years old, at some point this season. Hernandez is a bit older and further along in his development, making him a fair choice as the No. 5 starter. If he fails, Tillman won’t be far behind.

[TyCobb]

It's more like a slurve

Thank you for answering my question.

[Moose Milligan]

Well, I am sure you would be ok with whatever the Orioles would do.

No one on here knew Tillman's mechanics were messed up and yet you still endorsed the decision because the Orioles told you so. That's not enough for me.

DH just making it over Tillman because he had a few good weeks is bad...DH making it over Tillman because Tillman is having issues with his mechanics is a totally different story...and its also valid.

Well SG, ultimately they are the professionals. Thats not to say I'm fine with whatever the Orioles do...far from it. Moeller should be here instead of Tatum, I've hated several signings/acqusitions. It's not always black and white in terms of being "okay with whatever the Orioles do" so please stop acting like it is.

But if they decree that a young pitcher needs to be sent down, I don't feel like they owe me an explanation as to why. Those people making the decisions have watched more baseball over the years than you and me combined x 10 and know what to look for. Unlike you and me, they're industry professionals and like I said they do not owe us an explanation for every little thing they do.

[Sports Guy]

Well SG, ultimately they are the professionals. Thats not to say I'm fine with whatever the Orioles do...far from it. Moeller should be here instead of Tatum, I've hated several signings/acqusitions. It's not always black and white in terms of being "okay with whatever the Orioles do" so please stop acting like it is.

But if they decree that a young pitcher needs to be sent down, I don't feel like they owe me an explanation as to why. Those people making the decisions have watched more baseball over the years than you and me combined x 10 and know what to look for. Unlike you and me, they're industry professionals and like I said they do not owe us an explanation for every little thing they do.

I disagree....If the intention going into ST is that Tillman is the 5th starter...if there were "no surprises" as of last week and if prior history suggests one is better than the other, then they do owe an explanation..maybe you don't feel they do or want one..That's good for you...I feel differently.

[NewMarketSean]

I thought the Tatum over Moeller thing was because Moller can't throw the ball to 2B without rolling it there?

[Hank Scorpio]

SG demands satisfaction.

[Moose Milligan]

I disagree....If the intention going into ST is that Tillman is the 5th starter...if there were "no surprises" as of last week and if prior history suggests one is better than the other, then they do owe an explanation..maybe you don't feel they do or want one..That's good for you...I feel differently.

Why do you feel you need an explanation for everything the Orioles do? Are you a stockholder?

[bobmc]

OF5 demands satisfaction.

I altered your original iteration.

[amateurfan]

I disagree....If the intention going into ST is that Tillman is the 5th starter...if there were "no surprises" as of last week and if prior history suggests one is better than the other, then they do owe an explanation..maybe you don't feel they do or want one..That's good for you...I feel differently.

DH making the rotation was not surprise. Patton, Arrieta, Erbe making the rotation would have been a surprise. They had a competition for the fifth spot. What's so surprising that the underdog won? At least he was in the competition.

No one owes an explanation. That's ridiculous.

[Hank Scorpio]

I altered your original iteration.

That is certainly true. That bumper sticker applies to dozens of OH'ers, truth be told.

[Lucky Jim]

That is certainly true. That bumper sticker applies to dozens of OH'ers, truth be told.

O5F demands a very different kind of satisfaction. He's positively priapic.

[Sports Guy]

Why do you feel you need an explanation for everything the Orioles do? Are you a stockholder?

Why not? I am freaking fan and invest a lot of time into the team.

If they are going to do a total 180 on something, then yes, i feel we should know...I don't see why not.

You guys sit there and act as if this team doesn't ever owe us anything...You are the same fans who think they have some kind of top secret job and everything should be hush hush.

That's absurd...We are fans and the team should tell us things...They don't need to tell us about who they are going to draft, sign, trade, etc...But things like this? Absolutely.

[Lucky Jim]

Why not? I am freaking fan and invest a lot of time into the team.

If they are going to make a total 180 on something, then yes, i feel we should know...I don't see why not.

You guys sit there and act as if this team doesn't ever owe us anything...You are the same fans who think they have some kind of top secret job and everythign should be hush hush.

That's absurd...We are fans and the team should tell us things...They don't need to tell us about who they are going to draft, sign, trade, etc...But things like this? Absolutely.

It seems to me that they did tell you. Just not before you could take offense.