Melvin Mora Bunts for the win!

[beaner]

You know' date=' I hear this all the time. One of the reasons that I hate the Yankees is that not only do they win, but they have gotten the media to force-feed us this image of "classiness" while doing it. Jeter, Rivera, and Posada are great players. Two HOFers and one awfully close to being one. But what does their talent have to do with making them classy? Why do you say the Yankees are so much classier as human beings than the Red Sox? You say Beckett and Schilling, I give you jerks like Roger Clemens and Brian Bruney. Why is Posada classier than Varitek, or Rivera classier than Papelbon? Tim Wakefield always seemed like a class act to me, doesn't that count for anything? Is this all because the Yanks' PA announcer sounds like an old English butler? I am honestly curious as to what you specifically find classy about them.[/quote']

Valid question. I'm not calling out all of the Red Sox of course, or saying that all of the Yankees are great guys. I just know I've never heard a negative word about Posada, Jeter, Torre, and Rivera either on the field or off. Frankly, I can't understand why people "hate" certain guys just because they play for the Yankees. I love the Orioles, always will, always have. I've said numerous times that while I was growing into my baseball fanhood, the Yankees were no factor. I'm 36 years old, so from 1982-until 1993 or so the Yankees weren't that good. So therefore, I never grew to hate them. I don't root for them at all mind you, but there just isn't that hatred that so many seem to have. I understand being the spoiler and the win last night was awesome, no question. But to me, it was a great win against a great team.

How can anyone not respect what Joe Torre has done there? That's what I don't get.. Jeter is another one that has always baffled me. He's a terrific player who keeps himself clean on and off the field. Yes, the media makes a bigger deal about him than he really is, but he's still a tremendous player..I just don't think they're a hateable group.

I think if people just stopped and respected what they've accomplished as a team, forget the Fans, Steinbrenner, the media....etc. Just realize that winning 12 straight Divisions is pretty damn impressive.

I also realize a lot of people on here are younger and only know the Yankees of the past 10 years or so. I have to take that into account as well. Forgetting the 20's-60's as well because I'm too young for that.

[cindyluvsbrady]

Valid question. I'm not calling out all of the Red Sox of course, or saying that all of the Yankees are great guys. I just know I've never heard a negative word about Posada, Jeter, Torre, and Rivera either on the field or off. Frankly, I can't understand why people "hate" certain guys just because they play for the Yankees. I love the Orioles, always will, always have. I've said numerous times that while I was growing into my baseball fanhood, the Yankees were no factor. I'm 36 years old, so from 1982-until 1993 or so the Yankees weren't that good. So therefore, I never grew to hate them. I don't root for them at all mind you, but there just isn't that hatred that so many seem to have. I understand being the spoiler and the win last night was awesome, no question. But to me, it was a great win against a great team.

How can anyone not respect what Joe Torre has done there? That's what I don't get.. Jeter is another one that has always baffled me. He's a terrific player who keeps himself clean on and off the field. Yes, the media makes a bigger deal about him than he really is, but he's still a tremendous player..I just don't think they're a hateable group.

I think if people just stopped and respected what they've accomplished as a team, forget the Fans, Steinbrenner, the media....etc. Just realize that winning 12 straight Divisions is pretty damn impressive.

Yankees:p

I never understood yankee hatred until I went to an Os vs/evil ones playoff. game.I was attacked, cussed at, had things thrown at me....etc.All I was doing was wearing Os stuff:( .Then the Maier incident happened:eek: ...that speaks for itself.

I have some respect for some of the older yanks in history but not the present team and no one can make me.

I have been personally caused pain by them and the animals they call fans!:002_scry:

[beaner]

Yankees:p

I never understood yankee hatred until I went to an Os vs/evil ones playoff. game.I was attacked, cussed at, had things thrown at me....etc.All I was doing was wearing Os stuff:( .Then the Maier incident happened:eek: ...that speaks for itself.

I have some respect for some of the older yanks in history but not the present team and no one can make me.

I have been personally caused pain by them and the animals they call fans!:002_scry:

I agree with everything you said, but everything you mentioned was fan related, nothing regarding any players. The Maier incident sucked, no doubt, but we all know it didn't cost us the series. I've been an Orioles fan since I could talk, but I'm also a huge fan of Baseball and it's history. And what this Yankee TEAM (not fans) has accomplished is impressive, that's really my whole point.

I was thrilled the O's came back and won that game last night, please don't misunderstand. I'm not rooting for the Yankees in any way. I just think the accomplishment of 13 straight playoff appearances deserves some respect.

[cindyluvsbrady]

I agree with everything you said, but everything you mentioned was fan related, nothing regarding any players. The Maier incident sucked, no doubt, but we all know it didn't cost us the series. I've been an Orioles fan since I could talk, but I'm also a huge fan of Baseball and it's history. And what this Yankee TEAM (not fans) has accomplished is impressive, that's really my whole point.

I was thrilled the O's came back and won that game last night, please don't misunderstand. I'm not rooting for the Yankees in any way. I just think the accomplishment of 13 straight playoff appearances deserves some respect.

Baseball is life..I know that. You seem like a good guy and your kids are precious!

Go Os Spank the yanks AGAIN!!!!:002_scool:

[beaner]

Baseball is life..I know that. You seem like a good guy and your kids are precious!

Go Os Spank the yanks AGAIN!!!!:002_scool:

Thanks for the kind words...I'm with you, I hope the O's finish out the season well and win these last two.

[geschinger]

I think if people just stopped and respected what they've accomplished as a team, forget the Fans, Steinbrenner, the media....etc. Just realize that winning 12 straight Divisions is pretty damn impressive.

I agree w/a lot of what you said and I have a ton of respect for what the Yankees franchise did in the mid/late 90s.

However I don't consider winning with a 200m payroll to be all that much of an accomplishment - it should be expected. The failure to do so w/that kind of payroll is a collosal failure. I.e. the achievement of 12 straight divisions is nowhere near the accomplishment of the Braves winning all those consecutive divisions.

[beaner]

I agree w/a lot of what you said and I have a ton of respect for what the Yankees franchise did in the mid/late 90s.

However I don't consider winning with a 200m payroll to be all that much of an accomplishment - it should be expected. The failure to do so w/that kind of payroll is a collosal failure. I.e. the achievement of 12 straight divisions is nowhere near the accomplishment of the Braves winning all those consecutive divisions.

I hear you, but the core of those teams: Jeter, Pettitte, Posada, Bernie, Rivera, were all home grown guys and not big money free agents. The last few years with the Damons, Johnson, Giambi, Sheffield...etc haven't won a Series yet, so I do see your point, but still, the games have to be won.

[JTrea81]

Gotta love when the Orioles win and the fake fans act as though it is a bad thing.

Great win!

You see it's comments like this that are driving all this animosity. You guys may think that viewpoints such as mine are "raining on your parade" but you need to get over it. People like me are giving the other side a voice. I don't think you aren't a fan if have a different viewpoint on what winning a game in September will do for this team. Yeah we beat the Yankees and it might inspire confidence in this team but quite frankly I don't expect to see half of these guys back, so any confidence that is built will leave with those players. All a win does is set us back in draft position so a guy that we want may be taken ahead of us in not just the first round but every round (except for the supplemental) that follows. Somebody mentioned Kershaw could have been an Oriole if we'd pick a few spots higher. I'd rather have Kershaw than Rowell at this point wouldn't you? I'm not personally attacking any posters on this board, so I'm not violating any rules but those posters telling people like me to leave need to realize the other side should be allowed to be heard. 10 losing seasons has done this to me and others and I agree it's sad. Kudos to you guys who can see the glass is half full for this team as it is currently constructed, I just can't do it anymore...

[Spoonless]

You see it's comments like this that are driving all this animosity. You guys may think that viewpoints such as mine are "raining on your parade" but you need to get over it. People like me are giving the other side a voice. I don't think you aren't a fan if have a different viewpoint on what winning a game in September will do for this team. Yeah we beat the Yankees and it might inspire confidence in this team but quite frankly I don't expect to see half of these guys back, so any confidence that is built will leave with those players. All a win does is set us back in draft position so a guy that we want may be taken ahead of us in not just the first round but every round (except for the supplemental) that follows. Somebody mentioned Kershaw could have been an Oriole if we'd pick a few spots higher. I'd rather have Kershaw than Rowell at this point wouldn't you? I'm not personally attacking any posters on this board, so I'm not violating any rules but those posters telling people like me to leave need to realize the other side should be allowed to be heard. 10 losing seasons has done this to me and others and I agree it's sad. Kudos to you guys who can see the glass is half full for this team as it is currently constructed, I just can't do it anymore...

You could say that about any of the games the team has won during this season. It's not as if these final games are the only ones that determine our draft position.

And yes, your point of view should be voiced. I think a lot of the thing that sets some people off is the wording some people use, such as calling these games "meaningless." Of course, they have meaning, even to those who want the team to lose them. They have as much or as little meaning as any of the other games the Orioles have played this season, and they count against their win/loss record with equal weight as any games played in April or May.

If you are going to hope the team loses now for a higher draft pick, why wasn't anybody voicing this early in the season. Nobody expected this team to contend or to have a shot at the playoffs. Shouldn't we have been trying to tank for the #1 pick throughout the whole season? It's the same deal with next year, too. We're not going to contend. There isn't anything this team is going to do this offseason that will put us at the level of the Red Sox and Yankees. Should we already be hoping that we lose 100 games next season to secure a top draft pick?

I am not rooting for the O's to lose games. I understand that if they lose more games, it will put the team in a better position to improve itself over the long term. Fully knowing this, while watching a game, I am not rooting for a loss. And when they come back against the Yankees, in however "meaningless" a game to deem it, it's something I like to watch.

Blame the FO for the mess of an organization that we root for. Don't blame the fans who still want the team to win. Even if fans rooting for the O's to sweep the Yankees in this final series does affect the FO, and makes then try to appease these fans, it's not the fault of the fans. It's the FO's fault for trying to cater to them by trying quick fixes and stop-gap players to continue putting a (less than) mediocre team on the field.

I remember seeing a post in a thread maybe a week ago which insinuated that fans who continue to want the team to win, even when winning hurts us in the long term are the reason that the FO continues to put a mediocre product out there. That the fans are the reason the FO is scared to do a true rebuild, and maybe have some really down years in order to have some really good ones a few years down the road. That's the vibe that comes across, like we should be ashamed to hope our team wins, because by doing so, it's somehow our fault that the FO can't get its collective **** together. It's just a ludicrous argument. My hoping the team win does as much for the team itself as you hoping they lose.

A decent Front Office should be able to build up the organization whether they have the #1 pick or the #10 pick. Yes, it may be easier with the #1 pick, but they should still be able to build a good farm system with lower picks. It's a sad statement when you have to have the #1 pick to fix the organization.

[wickedwitch]

Just realize that winning 12 straight Divisions is pretty damn impressive.

It would be more impressive if they had actually done it.

What bothers me about Yankee fans is the way they assume they'll win everything and rarely consider that they might lose. Red Sox fans are the opposite in that they assume that the team will find a way to blow it.

And 1996 still really stings. Not the loss so much, because the Yankees really were better, but all the reactions to the Maier incident and how the media and fans treated him like a star. Instead of saying 'we got a huge break' it was 'well, it's just another step towards the Yankees destiny' like it was perfectly fair.

And now I will stop writing because thinking of it makes me sick.

[beaner]

It would be more impressive if they had actually done it.

What bothers me about Yankee fans is the way they assume they'll win everything and rarely consider that they might lose. Red Sox fans are the opposite in that they assume that the team will find a way to blow it.

And 1996 still really stings. Not the loss so much, because the Yankees really were better, but all the reactions to the Maier incident and how the media and fans treated him like a star. Instead of saying 'we got a huge break' it was 'well, it's just another step towards the Yankees destiny' like it was perfectly fair.

And now I will stop writing because thinking of it makes me sick.

Again, complaints about the media and fans, but not the team itself.

[geschinger]

I hear you, but the core of those teams: Jeter, Pettitte, Posada, Bernie, Rivera, were all home grown guys and not big money free agents. The last few years with the Damons, Johnson, Giambi, Sheffield...etc haven't won a Series yet, so I do see your point, but still, the games have to be won.

True but over the course of a full season if you spend > $50m more than anyone else and more than $100m more than the avg team with even semi-competent personnel decisions you are going to the playoffs. It's not an accomplishment worthy of big praise. Kind of similar to a top college football program playing against a Division I-AA school... Only worth attention if they were to fail to make the playoffs.

[George]

The most important person in the O's organization is MacPhail. His principal responsibility is reorganizing the O's front office including the decision-making process for draft choices. We all agree that a successful reorganization is vital to the O's future success. This reorganization is far more important to future success than our particular draft position this year. Our poor draft selections have been a much bigger problem than our relative draft position.

This being the case I suggest that all those who believe drafting players is important learn how to spell MacPhail's name. It's not McPhail as so many draft enthusiasts spell it in this thread and elsewhere. Some posters may be confusing the O's chief exec with McDonald's "restaurant." Not the same. One has the beef, the other has more carbs and fat than beef.