Bloody Weekend for top ranked teams...

[mweb]

Michigan is most likely if they run the table before OSU. For OSU to make it to the title game, they have to give Wisconsin who is unranked now, another loss so I think it's unlikely they make it back into the rankings. I guess PSU has a chance as well as I don't think they play anyone after tonight.

Depending on how far VT drops I think BC also has a chance to make it through the year w/o beating a EOS T25 team. After seeing VT against BC and earlier against the Carolinas I am convinced their ranking was the result of a weak schedule and think they'll lose at least one maybe two more games.

It would be nice, but probably wishful thinking. But for the good of the game, I say, let's find out w/WVU as the guinea pig.

Wisonconsin is 32nd, so if they lose in a close game to OSU, they could still end up ranked. VaTech will probably stayed ranked the rest of the year and Clemson may end up ranked. Plus BC would have to play in the ACC title game. I highly doubt they run the table though. I agree that their not that good, their similiar to USF, except they won their ESPN thursday night game on the road.

[geschinger]

I don't think the Sagarin rating are the end all be all to this discussion as you seem to. Having the Big East over the Pac-10 is absurd imo. It's a conference with only one really good team, who as I said, hasn't really beaten anyone, and only 2 teams I'd even consider to be good after that. As of now, that Auburn win is probably making a huge difference for them considering they haven't played many other big out of conference games.

I tend to agree, personally I think the Pac-10 is better than the BEast right now. But I do think that the national media and a majority of fans still underrate the BEast. And most conferences in this year of unprecedented parity have only one really good team. Even the Pac-10 which I do consider to rival the SEC as the best conference overall this season will have only one really good team when ASU gets exposed.

Besides the USF win at Auburn, what good out of conference wins does the Big East have? And I think most of the Big East schools aren't established enough or talented enough to think that highly of without having big wins.

BTW, are any of the other Big East schools going to eventually join the Big East in football? I know Villanova and GTown have teams, not sure about most of those other schools.

If the ACC could drop Duke and I guess NC State, they'd look a lot better too.

No, the BEast will not be adding any of those basketball only schools anytime soon. Tranghese is smart enough not to dillute the product. When (not if) Pittsburgh and Syracuse build back up to being the programs they are capable of being it will be top to bottom an excellent conference.

[mweb]

I tend to agree, personally I think the Pac-10 is better than the BEast right now. But I do think that the national media and a majority of fans still underrate the BEast. And most conferences in this year of unprecedented parity have only one really good team. Even the Pac-10 which I do consider to rival the SEC as the best conference overall this season will have only one really good team when ASU gets exposed.

Yeah, but the PAC-10 has 2-3 teams that are better than the Big East's 2nd best team imo. I'll take the 2-4 teams in almost every conference over the Big East's.

[mweb]

I tend to agree, personally I think the Pac-10 is better than the BEast right now. But I do think that the national media and a majority of fans still underrate the BEast. And most conferences in this year of unprecedented parity have only one really good team. Even the Pac-10 which I do consider to rival the SEC as the best conference overall this season will have only one really good team when ASU gets exposed.

No, the BEast will not be adding any of those basketball only schools anytime soon. Tranghese is smart enough not to dillute the product. When (not if) Pittsburgh and Syracuse build back up to being the programs they are capable of being it will be top to bottom an excellent conference.

Well they should be when they leave out their worst schools, like I said with the ACC and Duke, if other conferences left out their worst schools, they'd look a lot better top to bottom as well.

We shall see about that last part, your other definitive comments on the Big East haven't gone too well this year, so forgive me for not taking your word. When those programs rise, others will likely fall.

[geschinger]

Yeah, but the PAC-10 has 2-3 teams that are better than the Big East's 2nd best team imo. I'll take the 2-4 teams in almost every conference over the Big East's.

IMO, that is because you are similar to the national media and most fans by underrating the BEast and its teams. If the ACC and Big 10 this year are part of the grouping of almost every conference, which are the 2-4 teams would you take over the BEast?

[mweb]

IMO, that is because you are similar to the national media and most fans by underrating the BEast and its teams. If the ACC and Big 10 this year are part of the grouping of almost every conference, which are the 2-4 teams would you take over the BEast?

I don't think I am, I think you're overrating it, you're the biased one here, not me. What has UConn or Rutgers done to show their that good, besides beating USF who I'm not that impressed with.

Ok, not almost every, but most, I'll take the other 4 conferences over the Big East's 2-4 teams, and I do think the ACC and Big Ten would have a decent shot if this was settled on the field. Virginia beat UConn and UMD beat Rutgers, and I don't think either of those ACC schools are in their conferences top 4.

[geschinger]

Well they should be when they leave out their worst schools, like I said with the ACC and Duke, if other conferences left out their worst schools, they'd look a lot better top to bottom as well.

Maybe they should consider giving the perrenial doormats the boot? The BEast did that will Temple several years ago to the conferences benefit.

We shall see about that last part, your other definitive comments on the Big East haven't gone too well this year, so forgive me for not taking your word. When those programs rise, others will likely fall.

Some of my goals for the BEast were overly ambitious... Two things really hurt the chances of the BEast achieving what I had set out for them and in the long run both are excellent for the conferences long term health. One is the emergence of programs like USF and UConn and Cincinnati and the other is that unlike other conferences that have gotten too big for their own good - in the BEast everyone plays everyone else every year. End result is these teams have nice records in OOC competetion and then beat the crap out of each other in conference play.

[mweb]

Maybe they should consider giving the perrenial doormats the boot? The BEast did that will Temple several years ago to the conferences benefit.

Some of my goals for the BEast were overly ambitious... Two things really hurt the chances of the BEast achieving what I had set out for them and in the long run both are excellent for the conferences long term health. One is the emergence of programs like USF and UConn and Cincinnati and the other is that unlike other conferences that have gotten too big for their own good - in the BEast everyone plays everyone else every year. End result is these teams have nice records in OOC competetion and then beat the crap out of each other in conference play.

But they knocked Temple out competely, not just in football, pretty big difference imo. It doesn't make sense for the ACC to kick Duke out or for the Big Ten to kick Indiana out.

We'll see if those programs actually become good programs, or are just good in the short run, same with Rutgers.

Nice records in OOC play against mostly bad competition.

[geschinger]

I don't think I am, I think you're overrating it, you're the biased one here, not me. What has UConn or Rutgers done to show their that good, besides beating USF who I'm not that impressed with.

If so then why do you suppose the computers or Sangarin or just about any other attempt to *objectively* rank teams or conferences falls closer to my opinion of the BEast and its teams than yours?

Ok, not almost every, but most, I'll take the other 4 conferences over the Big East's 2-4 teams, and I do think the ACC and Big Ten would have a decent shot if this was settled on the field. Virginia and UMD beat UConn and Rutgers, and I don't think either of those ACC schools are in their conferences top 4.

In this year of parity any of the top handful of teams in any conference has a decent chance of knocking off any of the top handful of teams in any other conference if decided on the field. UConn's only loss was by one point on the road against what was coming into today a team ranked 15th in the BCS polls. That loss doesn't bother me much although I there is nothing that can be said about Rutgers losing to UMD. That was an embarassment for the conference.

Since you'll take the other 4 - which are the teams in the Big 12 who this year are better than the teams in the BEast not named Mountaineers?

[mweb]

If so then why do you suppose the computers or Sangarin or just about any other attempt to *objectively* rank teams or conferences falls closer to my opinion of the BEast and its teams than yours?

In this year of parity any of the top handful of teams in any conference has a decent chance of knocking off any of the top handful of teams in any other conference if decided on the field. UConn's only loss was by one point on the road against what was coming into today a team ranked 15th in the BCS polls. That loss doesn't bother me much although I there is nothing that can be said about Rutgers losing to UMD. That was an embarassment for the conference.

Since you'll take the other 4 - which are the teams in the Big 12 who this year are better than the teams in the BEast not named Mountaineers?

Because the Big East has done a good job in compiling wins, even though not against good competition, and don't have as bad of a bottom as most conferences due to only have 8 teams. What other computer ratings are high on the Big East? People try to objectively rank teams as well, and have the ability to actually see games and judge talent, and the people ranking teams don't seem to be that impressed by the Big East.

I've asked you what the Big East has done out of conference besides the Auburn win, and you did not respond to that, so you tell me why the Big East is so good without using the computer rankings.

Virginia isn't that good of a team. if UConn is on the same level as UVA, their not really a top 20 team imo.

Kansas, Missouri, and either KState or Texas. I think the first two teams would beat UConn and Rutgers, and USF would probably win the other game.

[mweb]

I just want to make it clear that I don't think the Big East is bad, I'm just not impressed with it, and think any rating system that says their the 2nd best conference is very flawed. I basically think there's the top two conferences, then there's not a big difference between the rest.

[geschinger]

But they knocked Temple out competely, not just in football, pretty big difference imo. It doesn't make sense for the ACC to kick Duke out or for the Big Ten to kick Indiana out.

We'll see if those programs actually become good programs, or are just good in the short run, same with Rutgers.

Nice records in OOC play against mostly bad competition.

True, they need Duke and Indiana respectively for what they bring to the table in other sports. But maybe the ACC and B10 respective should pressure those schools to put more resources into their programs and build them up. There is no excuse to be that bad for that long.

Only time will tell if the programs are good for the long term but I'm confident they are. At least I know that USF, Rutgers and UConn are serious about being quality programs and are putting a ton of resources into building 'em up. With the quality of the people running the respective programs I wouldn't bet against 'em. Although I guess at any time the NFL could come in and snag a guy like Schiano and slow that growth.

I'd be surprised if the BEast OOC schedules didn't match up well with that of many other schools. But There are some quality teams that teams from the conference have played and is part of the reason that the BEast teams come out in decent shape w/the computers.

[mweb]

True, they need Duke and Indiana respectively for what they bring to the table in other sports. But maybe the ACC and B10 respective should pressure those schools to put more resources into their programs and build them up. There is no excuse to be that bad for that long.

Only time will tell if the programs are good for the long term but I'm confident they are. At least I know that USF, Rutgers and UConn are serious about being quality programs and are putting a ton of resources into building 'em up. With the quality of the people running the respective programs I wouldn't bet against 'em. Although I guess at any time the NFL could come in and snag a guy like Schiano and slow that growth.

I'd be surprised if the BEast OOC schedules didn't match up well with that of many other schools. But There are some quality teams that teams from the conference have played and is part of the reason that the BEast teams come out in decent shape w/the computers.

Well of course you think they'll be good for the long term, we shall see, I'd bet against at least one of those programs. And they better start recruiting better. Many of their OOC schedules do match up well with many schools, but as a whole, it's a pretty weak. For a team like UConn they need to schedule better in order to get people to consider them for real.

I'm anxious to see what happens in the bowl games, hopefully the Big East teams get a little tougher competition this year than in the past couple.

[geschinger]

Because the Big East has done a good job in compiling wins, even though not against good competition, and don't have as bad of a bottom as most conferences due to only have 8 teams. What other computer ratings are high on the Big East? People try to objectively rank teams as well, and have the ability to actually see games and judge talent, and the people ranking teams don't seem to be that impressed by the Big East.

Teams in the BEast are usually consistently higher in the computer polls used by the BCS (I believe there are 6-8 of 'em) than they are in the subjective polls. Ironically enough that holds true for the teams other than WVU who the pollsters usually have ranked higher than the computers.

I've asked you what the Big East has done out of conference besides the Auburn win, and you did not respond to that, so you tell me why the Big East is so good without using the computer rankings.

I believe Cincy wiped the floor with the OSU team that knocked out what many thought was the PAC-10s 2nd best team. Louisville played Kentucky as tough as UF and LSU did. However I think you are penalizing the BEast teams calling them weak OOC schedules when for the most part they are every bit as good as those from other conferences. BEast teams aren't playing weaker OOC competetion.

Virginia isn't that good of a team. if UConn is on the same level as UVA, their not really a top 20 team imo.

Kansas, Missouri, and either KState or Texas. I think the first two teams would beat UConn and Rutgers, and USF would probably win the other game.

I think UConn is ranked about where they belong. I'm not going to overrate them based on today's win as I do think the results would of been different if the 1st half wasn't played in a driving rain.

USF and Texas have a common opponent in UCF. Texas won by 3, USF by 50. I haven't seen Missouri play to be able to agree or disagree about how they'd fare. I'm not sold on Kansas, I think they are benefiting from a ridiculously easy schedule. Their schedule is a case study on what is wrong w/mega conferences as they make it through conference play avoiding the better teams. I don't think there would be much difference in the quality of the conference this year if the 2007 USF, Rutgers and UConn teams were traded for Texas, Kansas and KSU.

[ledzepp8]

For a team like UConn they need to schedule better in order to get people to consider them for real.

Well they've only been DI-A since 2000...I'm not sure who's been lining up to play them. And schedules are made years in advance.