Treblehorn Dismissed; more changes to come

[Flosman]

From the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons - "Stress fractures are a type of overuse injury. These tiny cracks in your bones develop when your muscles become overtired (fatigued) and can no longer absorb the shock of repeated impacts. When this happens, the muscles transfer the stress to the bones, creating a small crack or fracture."

Go check out sports medicine journals relating to stress fracture in the elbow like Loewen's. If just pitching alot caused them alot of pitchers would have them and the injury is rare. Loewen's type of injury is usually an indication of some structual problem or an indication that his arm speed is stopped over to short of a distance causing the bones in the elbow to crash into each other too violently.

[hayek]

I really have no interest in reading medical journals. And nowhere have I ever read as to the specific type of stress fracture Loewan suffered from. But, in general, stress fractures are an injury caused by overuse. If you feel like delving into the specifics in order to demonstrate that Loewan's particular type of stress fracture was somehow unique and not attributable to overuse, go for it.

[Dr. FLK]

I really have no interest in reading medical journals. And nowhere have I ever read as to the specific type of stress fracture Loewan suffered from. But, in general, stress fractures are an injury caused by overuse. If you feel like delving into the specifics in order to demonstrate that Loewan's particular type of stress fracture was somehow unique and not attributable to overuse, go for it.

There are multiple causes of stress fractures, and yes overuse is one. So, if you want to discredit and ignore other causes that don't back your argument...go for it.

[hayek]

There are multiple causes of stress fractures, and yes overuse is one. So, if you want to discredit and ignore other causes that don't back your argument...go for it.

I never definitively said that Mazzone's pitching regimen caused Loewan's injury. I said that it "may" have caused his injury. Feel free to go back and read my initial posts on the topic. The reason I said this is because stress fractures are typically caused by overuse and I provided a quote to back up that statement. So, I don't think I ever tried to discredit other causes.

That being said, can you at least admit that it is possible that Loewan's injury was a direct result of Mazzone's pitching regimen? Or are you saying that it is completely and uterly impossible?

[mweb]

You can leave those guys completely out of the discussion, and he still has a successful track record. The chapter in "The Baseball Economist" by Bradbury is fantastic on this subject. He goes into his research thinking like you. But, he finds that Mazzone improves guys who he gets, and those same guys fall off when they leave. He has some excellent research, and it shows that his impact on the fringe guys is outstanding.

I like how you act as if I'm not saying he was he very good regardless of those 3 studs. Again, I agree he was a great pitching coach, but he is somewhat overrated imo due to the talent he's had.

[Zaimoku]

I never definitively said that Mazzone's pitching regimen caused Loewan's injury.

In addition to medical journals, it seems as if you don't read newspapers much either. By Loewan, do you mean Loewen?

[hayek]

In addition to medical journals, it seems as if you don't read newspapers much either. By Loewan, do you mean Loewen?

Good catch. It would be very helpful if you could proofread all the posts, zaemaku. I'm sure since you took the time to comment on my spelling, you have the time available.

[JTrea81]

I remember posting an article by Dick Mills on how the throwing program was bad because throwing was a different motion than actual pitching and the parts of the arm would get used to that motion and then have to use a different one to pitch, those parts would actually be confused and would result in poorer mechanics. Granted it's a theory but it may be relevant. Anyway here it is:

http://www.pitching.com/blog/135/why-baseball-pitching-throwing-programs-are-mostly-a-waste-of-time/

He actually mentions Mazzone's program and where it's fault is:

Leo Mazzone, Orioles pitching coach, believes flat ground throwing in the outfield at low intensity helps pitchers improve and maintain the health of their arms. If pitching was a flat ground activity at far less than game intensity then this would be a valuable activity to practice. However, pitching is not like playing catch in the outfield.