Jump to content

Cafardo: Orioles have long been interested in AGon

JTrea81

By JTrea81
in Orioles Talk

Recommended Posts

JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Risk mitigation and diversification. That's what it's all about.

No it's about winning games.

There is no "Best bang for your buck" award in baseball but there are pennants and trophies for winning games.

How much you have to pay is irrelevant as long as you win.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 94
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Smokin' Joe O AAA

Smokin' Joe O

Posted
Posted
No it's about winning games.

There is no "Best bang for your buck" award in baseball but there are pennants and trophies for winning games.

How much you have to pay is irrelevant as long as you win.

I'm starting to come around to this mentality. Sure, it's easy to hate the Yankees and want to be a magical team like the Twins or Rays that overcomes financial inequities and builds a David vs. Goliath team. But, the reality is that winning games with a $200M payroll counts the same as winning games with a $100M payroll.

If we can acquire the best players possible, that's our shot to unseat the 2-3 better teams in our division.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

Posted
Posted
No it's about winning games.

There is no "Best bang for your buck" award in baseball but there are pennants and trophies for winning games.

How much you have to pay is irrelevant as long as you win.

This is why many of us don't take you seriously. You really don't get that the Orioles have a small fraction of the resources of their competition.

The O's reward for "best bang for your buck" is contention. Their punishment for not managing their resources exceptionally well would be 70 wins a year forever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

Posted
Posted
I'm starting to come around to this mentality. Sure' date=' it's easy to hate the Yankees and want to be a magical team like the Twins or Rays that overcomes financial inequities and builds a David vs. Goliath team. But, the reality is that winning games with a $200M payroll counts the same as winning games with a $100M payroll.

If we can acquire the best players possible, that's our shot to unseat the 2-3 better teams in our division.[/quote']

Do you remember 1998? It is almost impossible for a team to both spend beyond its means and do all of the other things necessary to have a sustainable organization over the long haul.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Smokin' Joe O AAA

Smokin' Joe O

Posted
Posted
Do you remember 1998? It is almost impossible for a team to both spend beyond its means and do all of the other things necessary to have a sustainable organization over the long haul.

I do.

I also don't understand where I said we should spend beyond our means. I understood the idea of getting short-term stopgaps while we were building up a young nucleus. For years, it didn't make sense to go out and get the big bats at a premium when our supplemental players weren't ready.

However, in the next year or two, we'll likely have a pretty good rotation full of younger pitchers and a relatively productive supporting cast in the lineup (Pie, Reimold, Jones, Markakis, Wieters, for example).

So, at that point, instead of spending $40M over 3 years...maybe we spend $65M over 3 years to land the best possible middle-of-the-order bat we can. That would probably be our window to compete with this crop of players.

Those are arbitrary numbers for sure, but I'm sick of spending SOME money on a guy to fill a position instead of spending more to get a premium player. We've been waiting and waiting and saving up for something...eventually we have to pull the trigger and take our shot, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

Posted
Posted
No it's about winning games.

There is no "Best bang for your buck" award in baseball but there are pennants and trophies for winning games.

How much you have to pay is irrelevant as long as you win.

Well this post is poor for the reason Drungo mentioned; however for me it's more about what we'd have to give up to get AGon than the financial cost of him vs Pena, Lee, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Well this post is poor for the reason Drungo mentioned; however for me it's more about what we'd have to give up to get AGon than the financial cost of him vs Pena, Lee, etc.

You have to give something to get something.

While it's nice to think all of the Orioles prospects are going to pan out and we'll have a team that is winning year in and out built entirely of players through trades and our system the reality is that that is a fairy tale.

The Orioles need to capitalize on Tillman's hype before he regresses in AAA, ditto for Arrieta. If they can get a team to bite on those two as the main part of a package for a player like AGon, then they need to pull the trigger, yesterday...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

Posted
  • Author
Posted
This is why many of us don't take you seriously. You really don't get that the Orioles have a small fraction of the resources of their competition.

The O's reward for "best bang for your buck" is contention. Their punishment for not managing their resources exceptionally well would be 70 wins a year forever.

The Orioles can afford a $110-115 million dollar payroll if they wish IMO.

I realize MacPhail and Angelos have convinced you they don't have the money, but I'm not convinced.

And if they were actually committed to spending some money to put the best talent they can out there, they might be able to justify a decent hike in ticket prices so you can watch a competitive team. I know I'd rather pay more to watch a team that wins than pay less for one that doesn't.

For example, had the Orioles actually made an investment in the on-field product so it looked like they were going to have been competitive, I might have invested in MLB.tv to watch them live. And I'm sure other fans who can get to the games, might have invested more in tickets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

Posted
Posted
You have to give something to get something.

While it's nice to think all of the Orioles prospects are going to pan out and we'll have a team that is winning year in and out built entirely of players through trades and our system the reality is that that is a fairy tale.

The Orioles need to capitalize on Tillman's hype before he regresses in AAA, ditto for Arrieta. If they can get a team to bite on those two as the main part of a package for a player like AGon, then they need to pull the trigger, yesterday...

Who are you arguing with? I and no one else here thinks that. Unbelievable logic.

The bottom line is I think the team is better with Pena/Lee/Dunn (if he'll DH) and the players we'd have to give up to get AGon than AGon himself. How that means I don't want to win or I just don't want the team to spend money is beyond me.

And that's not saying I wouldn't trade anyone or that I think we're going to win with a team that doesn't receive outside help. Which should be abundantly clear since I mention bringing in a free agent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
Posted
You have to give something to get something.

While it's nice to think all of the Orioles prospects are going to pan out and we'll have a team that is winning year in and out built entirely of players through trades and our system the reality is that that is a fairy tale.

The Orioles need to capitalize on Tillman's hype before he regresses in AAA, ditto for Arrieta. If they can get a team to bite on those two as the main part of a package for a player like AGon, then they need to pull the trigger, yesterday...

And SD needs to capitalize on the obvious career year AGon just had.

You never seem to want to acknowledge the stats of AGOn last year and how much better he was last year compared to every other year of his career.

How many more wins, from 2011-2013, do you think AGon gives us compared to Pena, Tillman, Arrieta, etc...?

How much does AGon improve us in that scenario?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SrMeowMeow Hangout Grand Counsel

SrMeowMeow

Posted
Posted
Great post. Thank you.

No! No! It's a terrible post! You cannot have sustained organizational success without being efficient. This means that you have to consider more than what a player would produce, you also have to consider what the players you're giving up would produce and what the money you're committing could buy.

If MacPhail isn't trying to get the best bang for his buck, he's doing his job wrong. End of story.

Seriously, end of story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hobbycars AAA

hobbycars

Posted
Posted
No! No! It's a terrible post! You cannot have sustained organizational success without being efficient. This means that you have to consider more than what a player would produce, you also have to consider what the players you're giving up would produce and what the money you're committing could buy.

If MacPhail isn't trying to get the best bang for his buck, he's doing his job wrong. End of story.

Seriously, end of story.

I think AM is an above average GM. I think he would make a great commissioner and MLB would be lucky to have him. This isn't about AM.

It seems that some on this board are a bigger fan of watching our moves than about the game on the field. This game is about winning baseball games at the end of the day and we haven't done that for well over a decade.

Something is wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SrMeowMeow Hangout Grand Counsel

SrMeowMeow

Posted
Posted

I understand what you're saying. But I think it's dangerously close to the kind of mindset that got us this decade-long losing streak. The reason we haven't won baseball games is because the moves we've made have been poor, which is why people focus on the moves.

Also, who wants to focus on the games at a time like this? :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Posts

    • Bemorewins
      Kjerstad Joining Team

      By Bemorewins · Posted

      In 4 out of the next 9 we will face a LH starting pitcher. So there should be plenty of playing time to go around for him especially if he is going to start against lefties. Because those will be games that O'Hearn doesn't play and you gotta imagine that Mullins will sit a day or 2 against at least some of the Yanks tough lefties (Rodon and Cortez).
    • CaptainRedbeard
      Kjerstad Joining Team

      By CaptainRedbeard · Posted

      Maybe, but not if they DH Adley vs LHP, which they’ve continued to do a lot this year. If so, he’s not going to take the LH ABs from Cowser or Mullins because that means putting Kjerstad in the field somewhere and massively downgrading the defense. Otherwise Kjerstad is just replacing Mountcastle or Santander vs LHP, so not really a different consideration for playing time than when facing RHP. So hopefully Kjerstad can pick up some ABs vs LHP from O’Hearn at DH when Adley stays at C or gets a full day off, but I don’t expect that too often.
    • LookinUp
      Jackson Holliday 2024

      By LookinUp · Posted

      We know that there will have to be tough roster decisions with this team in the near future. Is the plan to put those off until the offseason no matter what? If that's the plan, you might see a rationale for keeping the status quo. At the same time, I'd be fine with making one or two of those decisions by the deadline. But let's be honest here, you're talking about the risk with one player (Norby) by making the change I'm saying to make. It's not going to derail the future of this team or even his trade value.  At the same time, I think they're doing Holliday a disservice. He only played 36 games in AA, and half that in AAA, last year. They didn't even give those leagues the chance to adjust to him. I really, honestly, think they've rushed the kid. I think he's showing that he's not ready offensively, or even defensively at 2B. Heck, I think he's overhyped in general even though I definitely see him eventually as an above average 2B and top of the league leadoff hitter. But he's not the uber athlete, big powerful MOO bat that someone like a Gunnar is. He's more of Jeter profile. That's wonderful, but it's not an ARod profile either and Jeter did what he did with 10/10 intangibles. I think there's more to gain by getting the extra year of service time and making sure he's ready, and I think that way outweighs the risks of losing some value on a guy like Norby.
    • deward
      Kjerstad Joining Team

      By deward · Posted

      Ideally, sure, but in a situation where you assume that you're only getting 5-6 years from that player before he leaves, I can understand trying to manage their time so that you get the maximum impact out of it.
    • Orioles0615
      2024 Ongoing Lineup Thread

      By Orioles0615 · Posted

      yea McCann has been hot but eventually I would hope to see a better lineup vs lefties. I don't think they will DH Adley all year against them and have Cowser and Mullins play and use a different DH 
    • Bemorewins
      Kjerstad Joining Team

      By Bemorewins · Posted

      Do you think that Mountcastle could land us a frontline starting pitcher? Otherwise, there's really no use in trading him. He has been one of the best hitters on the team and is still relatively young. Also, it might take trading Norby AND Stowers to get back a difference making starting pitcher. Would you be comfortable with that? Or do you think it would be better for him to be the 10th - 12th hitter on the team next year. I ask because with so many top level talents/potential star players, the need or use for 10- 12 bench players is not that high (think ATL Braves). However, we are one more top notch starter (especially once Bradish returns) from being the best team in baseball bar none. Plus, if we are not going to resign Burnes, we will need someone up at or near the top of the rotation next season (even if Bradish is there and healthy) if we want to put ourselves in the best position possible to win it all.
    • Sports Guy
      Kjerstad Joining Team

      By Sports Guy · Posted

      I think most people’s minds are conditioned that a player has to play everyday. We don’t see teams playing a lot of guys some. We see teams that normally put out the same lineups everyday and play the same players most of the time. But the reality is that shouldn’t be the case.    We also don’t need young guys to come up and play every single day to justify them being here.  They can play 2-4 times a week and get PH appearances.  When the player is “old enough” and has nothing left to prove in the minors, you get them up here even if it’s just on a part time basis for a while until things get figured out.

  • Popular Contributors

  • Popular Now

×
×
  • Create New...