How Does Terry Crowley Continue To Fly Under the Radar?

[Pedro Cerrano]

Yeah...

Markakis is a .143 hitter. Tejada is a .207 hitter. Jones is a .233 hitter. Reimold is a .200 hitter. Scott is a .190 hitter.

They all stink! Trade them all for some that are better...

They might have better batting averages with a new hitting coach.

[The Rick]

This is so silly...you think Crowley is telling the hitters to strike out with a runner on third and less than two outs?

Yes, I do... I heard this from a friend of a friend who has a friend who knows someone who works at OPACY. He heard Crowley telling his players this.

Come on people, don't be ridiculous. This whole concept that the hitting coach isn't held accountable for anything is just insane. I've said repeatedly, we'd be guessing if we acted like we knew what exactly his job is, and I've also said I wouldn't know if he should be gone or not. But you really think the hitting coach has no impact on the little things? Really? To each their own I guess.

[Bradysburns]

Nice try, but not every hitter has the pitch recognition to just "take more balls", not every hitter has the contact skill to spoil pitches, etc. Working the count doesn't work when you have a pitcher who throws strikes, especially first pitch strikes. You just end up hitting 0-2. Not every hitter is a good 2 strike hitter. Having a team approach is a little unrealistic, if the team all has different skill levels. You'll never turn Miggi into a Nick type of hitter and Nick would be a disaster trying to hit like Miggi. It's not a one size fits all thing.

I get it - you can't have one size fits all. You can't just say: everyone take first pitches. But you can define the team's overall strategy - clearly and repeatedly - and make sure batters tailor their approach to fit the strategy. Maybe Crow has done this. Maybe not. But our hitting stinks right now - it's appalling. And Crow is the hitting coach. So someone needs to take responsibility. And you can't fire the whole batting order.

[Bradysburns]

You don't think it is Crowleys job to help them figure out how? Terry Crowley is lucky he is in baseball!

In fact, he's lucky he's in BLEEPING baseball. I'm not saying he's a bad guy. He might even be a good hitting coach. But what the heck is he still doing in Baltimore? Why would any manager worth his salt not insist on bringing in his own hitting coach? It bugs me that he's survived several managerial changes. It says something about the quality of the managers, and the undue influence of the front office on the on-field product... And our apparent lack of a coherent hitting philosophy/approach makes it even more galling to me.

[LookinUp]

We have some awesome posters on this board who know how to break down stats much better than me. If anyone has the time/energy/wisdom, I'd love a comparison of our current player's stats over time. For the young guys (Kakes, Reimold, Wieters, Jones) the columns would be something like this:

A. Player......B. MiL OPS......C. MLE........D. ML OPS.......E. (D-C)

For the older guys who have experience playing with other teams, it would be a simple comparison of previous performance to current performance, with park factors accounted for. Small sample sizes would need to be removed, of course (e.g., Atkins, Tejada).

I'm not sure if OPS is the way to go though and I'm not at all sure what this would show. However, if the MLE stat is useful at all (and I don't know if it is) then I'd wager a sig bet that it would show the O's major league hitters are doing worse over their careers as an Oriole than their MLE's would have predicted.

No, I don't have confidence in Crowley to be our hitting coach moving forward.

Yes, I would love it if he were hired to be a special expert who works on hitting mechanics from guys from low A to the majors.

No, I don't find El Gordo's "if you can't diagnose specifically what he's doing wrong you're stupid for raising the point" argument compelling in the least.

[flashjordnk]

A really good stat to measure this kind of stuff is F-Strike %.

It basically measures the percentages of at bats that turn into a first pitch strike. This includes both called/swinging strikes and any ball that is put into play. Assuming over the course of a game/season the number of first pitch strikes will level out for all the teams.

The variation in percentage will result in teams that learn to take Ball 1 and teams that swing at it and put it into play. It shows a pretty good representation of how aggressive early in the count hitters as a team can be.

In 2009 the O's had a 57.2% F-Strike %. Surprisingly good. Showing a good balance, at least compared to rest of the league they were 4th lowest. Right now the O's are 4th highest with 60.8%. I know it doesn't seem like a big change but with at least 30+ at bats in a game it's a pretty big difference to say 3%.

All in all it seems like the plate discipline is an issue early in the season for the O's.

[DeanMW]

The obvious answer is Crowley should not be fired. Next time Adam Jones begins feebly waving at outside breaking garbage (BECAUSE CROW TOLD HIM THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA) , he should be drug outside the stadium, to be hanged, drawn and quartered on Eutaw Street.

This will so enrage the players, to have the hitting coach pay the ultimate price for their failures, that they will all begin hitting like 'roided up Barry Bonds clones, without the PED's of course.

Or maybe, the hitters performing more like their career averages indicate, will make this idiocy go away. Just like it does EVERY year.

[ccbird]

What is his message/approach, JTrea? If you think it needs to be refreshed/reconsidered, exactly what are we talking about here.

Crowley doesn't hand out a pamphlet at the start of spring training entitled, "My Way of Hitting by Terry Crowley". He works with each player individually. He's not going to give the same advice to Cesar Izturis as he is to Nick Markakis. Different skill set, different type of hitter. The idea that Crowley (or any other hitting coach for that matter) has a specific approach is silly.

Sssssoooooooooooo...they should fire Crowley to piss off the players and that's going to what? Make the players play better? C'mon man...you don't really believe that, do you? That strategy doesn't fly in any sport or in any application of effective personnel management.

No, the team pays him to help the players maintain their mechanics, evaluate opposing pitchers and develop a strategy, troubleshoot flaws, but he's not a hitting teacher. The reading teacher analogy isn't apples-to-apples.

Exactly. Someone gets it.

What would April be without the annual Fire Crowley thread.

[Baltimorebull]

Exactly. Someone gets it.

What would April be without the annual Fire Crowley thread.

I sometimes think that people take some perverse pleasure in keeping Crowley as our hitting coach because he is one of our guys. But really. . . he has been hitting coach here for 16 years-- in two stints. I am not a whiz at baseball but i know that over the time he has been here he has outlasted managers, pitching coaches, general managers -- and owners. and while he has had some great-- Hall Of Fame players. . . i can't think of anyone who feels he is any better than average. . .

If fired would anyone hire him as hitting coach? . . . sometimes change for changes sake is needed--- good lord the team has changed everything else.

Bring back Rich Downs.

[SrMeowMeow]

Yes, I do... I heard this from a friend of a friend who has a friend who knows someone who works at OPACY. He heard Crowley telling his players this.

Come on people, don't be ridiculous. This whole concept that the hitting coach isn't held accountable for anything is just insane. I've said repeatedly, we'd be guessing if we acted like we knew what exactly his job is, and I've also said I wouldn't know if he should be gone or not. But you really think the hitting coach has no impact on the little things? Really? To each their own I guess.

Crowley can fix their mechanics. He can help them prepare for different pitchers. He can even drill them in strategy - hit the ball to the right side; hit a sacrifice fly; just make any kind of contact. But what he can't do is stop a player from striking out in a specific at-bat. He can't do it. No hitting coach can.

Am I saying that hitting coaches can't ever be held accountable? No. But they can only be held accountable, like managers and GMs and everyone in the world, based on the process, not based on results. And, unlike managers and GMs, what a hitting coach does is almost completely opaque to fans. We don't know how he coaches. We don't know what advice he's giving to the hitters. It could be bad advice. Our struggles with RISP could be entirely his fault. But we don't know, and because we don't know, blaming Crowley is ignorant.

Read what I said. Really read the whole thing instead of cherry-picking some tidbits to fuel your argument. I mean, my god. In the first sentence of the second paragraph I said the exact opposite of your little strawman there.

[Going Underground]

The obvious answer is Crowley should not be fired. Next time Adam Jones begins feebly waving at outside breaking garbage (BECAUSE CROW TOLD HIM THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA) , he should be drug outside the stadium, to be hanged, drawn and quartered on Eutaw Street.

I think we should turn Camden Yards like ancient Rome. You run the bases wrong,you get fed to the Lions. You swing at a bad pitch also. We would at least get more then 9,129 fans.

[El Gordo]

We have some awesome posters on this board who know how to break down stats much better than me. If anyone has the time/energy/wisdom, I'd love a comparison of our current player's stats over time. For the young guys (Kakes, Reimold, Wieters, Jones) the columns would be something like this:

A. Player......B. MiL OPS......C. MLE........D. ML OPS.......E. (D-C)

For the older guys who have experience playing with other teams, it would be a simple comparison of previous performance to current performance, with park factors accounted for. Small sample sizes would need to be removed, of course (e.g., Atkins, Tejada).

I'm not sure if OPS is the way to go though and I'm not at all sure what this would show. However, if the MLE stat is useful at all (and I don't know if it is) then I'd wager a sig bet that it would show the O's major league hitters are doing worse over their careers as an Oriole than their MLE's would have predicted.

No, I don't have confidence in Crowley to be our hitting coach moving forward.

Yes, I would love it if he were hired to be a special expert who works on hitting mechanics from guys from low A to the majors.

No, I don't find El Gordo's "if you can't diagnose specifically what he's doing wrong you're stupid for raising the point" argument compelling in the least.

So basically, though you admit you know no nothing about medicine, you're comfortable with insisting that if the patient is sick it must be the doctor's fault. Brilliant. :rolleyestf:

[SrMeowMeow]

We have some awesome posters on this board who know how to break down stats much better than me. If anyone has the time/energy/wisdom, I'd love a comparison of our current player's stats over time. For the young guys (Kakes, Reimold, Wieters, Jones) the columns would be something like this:

A. Player......B. MiL OPS......C. MLE........D. ML OPS.......E. (D-C)

For the older guys who have experience playing with other teams, it would be a simple comparison of previous performance to current performance, with park factors accounted for. Small sample sizes would need to be removed, of course (e.g., Atkins, Tejada).

I'm not sure if OPS is the way to go though and I'm not at all sure what this would show. However, if the MLE stat is useful at all (and I don't know if it is) then I'd wager a sig bet that it would show the O's major league hitters are doing worse over their careers as an Oriole than their MLE's would have predicted.

No, I don't have confidence in Crowley to be our hitting coach moving forward.

Yes, I would love it if he were hired to be a special expert who works on hitting mechanics from guys from low A to the majors.

No, I don't find El Gordo's "if you can't diagnose specifically what he's doing wrong you're stupid for raising the point" argument compelling in the least.

But it's kind of true, right? You haven't done any research, you have no facts, you just have a gut feeling that Crowley's responsible for our struggles when it's entirely possible that he's not.

[Stotle]

So basically, though you admit you know no nothing about medicine, you're comfortable with insisting that if the patient is sick it must be the doctor's fault. Brilliant. :rolleyestf:

That's an unfair comparison. I think the analogy would be:

Patient A is being treated for a chronic illness. He was under the care of Doctor A for a time, Doctor B for a time, and now Doctor C. The patient's health has been worse under the care of Doctor C.

Is there enough info to say it's Doctor C's fault? Probably not. Maybe the condition has just worsened. Maybe something new has sprung up. But it COULD be possible to make some comparisons with minimal medical expertise, and the more info you have the better your conclusions will be.

[El Gordo]

Unless you have been in the cage with Crow and each of the teams hitters, because as Scottie pointed out he works with each one differently, according to their skill set, you are in no position to say anything beyond, the O's have been hitting poorly their first 6 games, it must be Crowley's fault because he's the hitting coach(even though I am clueless as to what he's doing or not doing) and so he needs to be fired. I don't know about any one else, but that seems pretty stupid to me.