Jump to content

Blame MacPhail


JTrea81

Recommended Posts

The same is true in baseball. I'm not trying to knock your and Trea's baseball IQ, but I believe most around here have vision (and perhaps you guys don't??)... and see that AM has a strong vision for the future of the Orioles. They can see beyond the 1-10 start and they understand where he is going and how he is getting there. We may not totally agree with all of his moves, but we also understand he won't get backed into a corner. We also understand and believe that part of this plan is to make that big FA splash when it is needed.

It is difficult to quantify vision... especially when you are on the outside looking in - therefore if you don't have it or understand it, it is easy to say - look, we're 1-10! or look - Bell and Snyder are hurt! or... look - we don't have that big bat! And on the other side it is difficult to be able to say "we believe in AM" and really don't see the results.

But those of us with vision... believe. And those who don't... will continue to pound away on AM.

I will try to not to react negatively to this post because my first inclination was to assume that you're mocking my ability to see the bigger picture, but I will take the high road and say that you're making an incorrect conclusion based on what you believe you know of my attitude toward the team, the FO, and Angelos.

I worked for several corporations (mom & pop and publicly traded ones), I wrote articles for major newspapers and magazines, I started my own production company and I have two comic book series debuting within the year.

I am a very creative and driven person that understands the nature of long-term planning for future success and making sacrifices for the good of everyone around me. I moved from a comfortable life in NYC to Los Angeles to pursue my dreams in life.

Implying that I don't have "vision" because I disagree with the way that a baseball team is run is one of the most insulting things I have ever heard in my life. Its just plain ridiculous.

We have an owner that has millions upon millions of dollars in his war chest, who has a network that generates income, that has revenue sharing for not being a "large" market, has a deal with the State of Maryland for his stadium, and has a compensatory deal with MLB for allowing the Nationals to move into his "turf."

We have a GM that refuses to be aggressive on the FA market and overpays mediocre talent while allowing high quality players to slip through his grasp on more than one occasion.

I DO understand that it takes years for a rebuilding effort and that you shouldn't rush to sign a FA just because he's free because he might not fit into your long-term goals.

I GET IT.

But I go back to my original question of why do we not get ANYONE that can help the team win games? Why weren't we in the hunt for Halladay or Lackey? Why didn't we really TRY to get AGon?

Why is there this assumption that we have to bankrupt the farm system when we can simply sign them for cash?

I am so tired of people making excuses for AM and PA when we never actually improve the team on a large scale. We're moving 35MPH in a 65MPH zone when we could at least go 55 if you catch my drift. We move REALLY slow ALL THE TIME.

Sure, we've made a lot of improvements on the farms, but what about the major league team? Wins and losses HAVE GOT TO COUNT at some point and how can you turn around a franchise when they automatically assume they won't contend when they see their teammates and then look at the rosters of the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, etc.?

These guys aren't stupid and I'm sure that while Markakis and Brob and AJ like their teammates, they realize that they don't have a Pedroia, or Youkilis, or ARod or Jeter or even a Robinson Cano on their squad. That's just plain reality.

For far too long (and its getting really tired) the discussion has been centered around waiting for the team to "gel" vs. going out and making some impact free agent signings.

My question is, why can't we do both?

I've seen many teams go out and address their needs when they have them. Why don't we?

MSK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 294
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Damon didn't get a big deal or anything and Verlander had years under control...That deal is a few years away from mattering to their payroll.

They traded Edwin Jackson as well.

From Cots:

2008 Payroll-$137,685,196

2009 Payroll- $115,085,145

2010 Payroll- $133,995,400

Damon- 1 year/$8M

8 million is a pretty big deal for a team that needs to cut payroll.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will try to not to react negatively to this post because my first inclination was to assume that you're mocking my ability to see the bigger picture, but I will take the high road and say that you're making an incorrect conclusion based on what you believe you know of my attitude toward the team, the FO, and Angelos.

I worked for several corporations (mom & pop and publicly traded ones), I wrote articles for major newspapers and magazines, I started my own production company and I have two comic book series debuting within the year.

I am a very creative and driven person that understands the nature of long-term planning for future success and making sacrifices for the good of everyone around me. I moved from a comfortable life in NYC to Los Angeles to pursue my dreams in life.

Implying that I don't have "vision" because I disagree with the way that a baseball team is run is one of the most insulting things I have ever heard in my life. Its just plain ridiculous.

We have an owner that has millions upon millions of dollars in his war chest, who has a network that generates income, that has revenue sharing for not being a "large" market, has a deal with the State of Maryland for his stadium, and has a compensatory deal with MLB for allowing the Nationals to move into his "turf."

We have a GM that refuses to be aggressive on the FA market and overpays mediocre talent while allowing high quality players to slip through his grasp on more than one occasion.

I DO understand that it takes years for a rebuilding effort and that you shouldn't rush to sign a FA just because he's free because he might not fit into your long-term goals.

I GET IT.

But I go back to my original question of why do we not get ANYONE that can help the team win games? Why weren't we in the hunt for Halladay or Lackey? Why didn't we really TRY to get AGon?

Why is there this assumption that we have to bankrupt the farm system when we can simply sign them for cash?

I am so tired of people making excuses for AM and PA when we never actually improve the team on a large scale. We're moving 35MPH in a 65MPH zone when we could at least go 55 if you catch my drift. We move REALLY slow ALL THE TIME.

Sure, we've made a lot of improvements on the farms, but what about the major league team? Wins and losses HAVE GOT TO COUNT at some point and how can you turn around a franchise when they automatically assume they won't contend when they see their teammates and then look at the rosters of the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, etc.?

These guys aren't stupid and I'm sure that while Markakis and Brob and AJ like their teammates, they realize that they don't have a Pedroia, or Youkilis, or ARod or Jeter or even a Robinson Cano on their squad. That's just plain reality.

For far too long (and its getting really tired) the discussion has been centered around waiting for the team to "gel" vs. going out and making some impact free agent signings.

My question is, why can't we do both?

I've seen many teams go out and address their needs when they have them. Why don't we?

MSK

First off, I own a comic book shop, I need to know about those titles you are going to release this year, so I can pimp them at my store.

Second, I've spent most of the last decade sharing your exact take on the franchise we all love here. I'm not an apologist for PA, he is what got us the dirty dozen year losing streak. I'm not really an apologist for AM either, but I get why he building the way he is building.

The Twins appear to be the model organization in his eyes, simply based on his overall approach to this rebuild. Starting with stronger drafts and trying to re-stock the farm, and then focusing on fundamentals and stage three will include either DT stepping up on the manager front or finding a person to get the most from a ball club that builds primarily from within.

I believe PA wants to spend money, I really do. He has shown the want to throw it around before, but there weren't a lot of great deals among the big contracts in his tenure as owner.

My theory is that AM is holding the cash to keep the talent that shines through the next couple of years. If the money is spent on short term free agents, high quality or otherwise, the budget to sign potential superstars (Wieters, Matusz, Bell, etc, whoever rises to that level) will not be there to build for the long haul.

The strategy only pays out for a team, if the young talent reaches that potential.

I can get through this year, if the foundation AM is attempting to establish starts to show some of that ability many scouts and general managers seem to think we have.

-Don

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will try to not to react negatively to this post because my first inclination was to assume that you're mocking my ability to see the bigger picture, but I will take the high road and say that you're making an incorrect conclusion based on what you believe you know of my attitude toward the team, the FO, and Angelos.

I worked for several corporations (mom & pop and publicly traded ones), I wrote articles for major newspapers and magazines, I started my own production company and I have two comic book series debuting within the year.

I am a very creative and driven person that understands the nature of long-term planning for future success and making sacrifices for the good of everyone around me. I moved from a comfortable life in NYC to Los Angeles to pursue my dreams in life.

Implying that I don't have "vision" because I disagree with the way that a baseball team is run is one of the most insulting things I have ever heard in my life. Its just plain ridiculous.

We have an owner that has millions upon millions of dollars in his war chest, who has a network that generates income, that has revenue sharing for not being a "large" market, has a deal with the State of Maryland for his stadium, and has a compensatory deal with MLB for allowing the Nationals to move into his "turf."

We have a GM that refuses to be aggressive on the FA market and overpays mediocre talent while allowing high quality players to slip through his grasp on more than one occasion.

I DO understand that it takes years for a rebuilding effort and that you shouldn't rush to sign a FA just because he's free because he might not fit into your long-term goals.

I GET IT.

But I go back to my original question of why do we not get ANYONE that can help the team win games? Why weren't we in the hunt for Halladay or Lackey? Why didn't we really TRY to get AGon?

Why is there this assumption that we have to bankrupt the farm system when we can simply sign them for cash?

I am so tired of people making excuses for AM and PA when we never actually improve the team on a large scale. We're moving 35MPH in a 65MPH zone when we could at least go 55 if you catch my drift. We move REALLY slow ALL THE TIME.

Sure, we've made a lot of improvements on the farms, but what about the major league team? Wins and losses HAVE GOT TO COUNT at some point and how can you turn around a franchise when they automatically assume they won't contend when they see their teammates and then look at the rosters of the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, etc.?

These guys aren't stupid and I'm sure that while Markakis and Brob and AJ like their teammates, they realize that they don't have a Pedroia, or Youkilis, or ARod or Jeter or even a Robinson Cano on their squad. That's just plain reality.

For far too long (and its getting really tired) the discussion has been centered around waiting for the team to "gel" vs. going out and making some impact free agent signings.

My question is, why can't we do both?

I've seen many teams go out and address their needs when they have them. Why don't we?

MSK

I'm not sure you do get it. Trading for Agon or his like would cost too much in terms of young talent, to be worth it in the long run. Spending for the likes of Holilday or Lackey, when you have 5 OF and 8 young SP, close to similar worth would be foolish. Look at how crippling Soriano's contarct is to the Cubs. You don't want to put yourself in such a position down the road, for a quick fix this year. You seem to have your own personal emotional needs confused with the success of the team. It's only a baseball team, it's not your life. Things may feel urgent for you, but they are not so urgent for the Orioles.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This post merits a reply.

Vision is something that people are born with. Either you have vision - or the ability to look beyond the present and prepare for the future - or you don't. Most people who don't have "vision" often can't understand and comprehend those who do.

People who do not have "vision" are also very important. They are usually the ones that help keep the business or organization going or in check as the leader prepares an organization for the future.

Most companies and organizations that have a strong leader also have plans... strategic plans. These plans are not publicized much beyond the upper management and board of directors. They are usually kept under wraps because they don't want other businesses to find out the direction the company is going in... its just good business.

People who have "vision" but are on the outside the companies can easily see and understand when a company has a strong leader and that leader has a strong vision for the future. Does that guarentee that the company the leader is runnining will take some detours to get to the goals he/she has made? No. But this person usually has backup plans if one plan goes badly. He/she is not easily put into a corner they cannot get out of.

Oftentimes these businesses/companies need to take a step back inorder to move forward. I'm thinking of the new CEO of Verizon who spent a year's worth of advertising almost apologizing for his company... say that Verizon was going to be a better cell phone company... and all of the while they were putting the smack down building a larger 3G network and now they have AT&T on its heels.

The same is true in baseball. I'm not trying to knock your and Trea's baseball IQ, but I believe most around here have vision (and perhaps you guys don't??)... and see that AM has a strong vision for the future of the Orioles. They can see beyond the 1-10 start and they understand where he is going and how he is getting there. We may not totally agree with all of his moves, but we also understand he won't get backed into a corner. We also understand and believe that part of this plan is to make that big FA splash when it is needed.

It is difficult to quantify vision... especially when you are on the outside looking in - therefore if you don't have it or understand it, it is easy to say - look, we're 1-10! or look - Bell and Snyder are hurt! or... look - we don't have that big bat! And on the other side it is difficult to be able to say "we believe in AM" and really don't see the results.

But those of us with vision... believe. And those who don't... will continue to pound away on AM.

So I should consider my impulse to question AM's decisions on occasion a birth defect?

It may be difficult to quantify vision in your philosophy, but it's not difficult to quantify horse manure in mine. Congratulations, you just won the MVP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will try to not to react negatively to this post because my first inclination was to assume that you're mocking my ability to see the bigger picture, but I will take the high road and say that you're making an incorrect conclusion based on what you believe you know of my attitude toward the team, the FO, and Angelos.

I worked for several corporations (mom & pop and publicly traded ones), I wrote articles for major newspapers and magazines, I started my own production company and I have two comic book series debuting within the year.

I am a very creative and driven person that understands the nature of long-term planning for future success and making sacrifices for the good of everyone around me. I moved from a comfortable life in NYC to Los Angeles to pursue my dreams in life.

Implying that I don't have "vision" because I disagree with the way that a baseball team is run is one of the most insulting things I have ever heard in my life. Its just plain ridiculous.

We have an owner that has millions upon millions of dollars in his war chest, who has a network that generates income, that has revenue sharing for not being a "large" market, has a deal with the State of Maryland for his stadium, and has a compensatory deal with MLB for allowing the Nationals to move into his "turf."

We have a GM that refuses to be aggressive on the FA market and overpays mediocre talent while allowing high quality players to slip through his grasp on more than one occasion.

I DO understand that it takes years for a rebuilding effort and that you shouldn't rush to sign a FA just because he's free because he might not fit into your long-term goals.

I GET IT.

But I go back to my original question of why do we not get ANYONE that can help the team win games? Why weren't we in the hunt for Halladay or Lackey? Why didn't we really TRY to get AGon?

Why is there this assumption that we have to bankrupt the farm system when we can simply sign them for cash?

I am so tired of people making excuses for AM and PA when we never actually improve the team on a large scale. We're moving 35MPH in a 65MPH zone when we could at least go 55 if you catch my drift. We move REALLY slow ALL THE TIME.

Sure, we've made a lot of improvements on the farms, but what about the major league team? Wins and losses HAVE GOT TO COUNT at some point and how can you turn around a franchise when they automatically assume they won't contend when they see their teammates and then look at the rosters of the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, etc.?

These guys aren't stupid and I'm sure that while Markakis and Brob and AJ like their teammates, they realize that they don't have a Pedroia, or Youkilis, or ARod or Jeter or even a Robinson Cano on their squad. That's just plain reality.

For far too long (and its getting really tired) the discussion has been centered around waiting for the team to "gel" vs. going out and making some impact free agent signings.

My question is, why can't we do both?

I've seen many teams go out and address their needs when they have them. Why don't we?

MSK

Let me ask you a question... why hasn't your comic books sold a million copies yet? Why hasn't it been made into a movie yet? Why aren't their figurines in every Wal-Mart and Target yet?

I'm sure you have invested time, money and effort into those comic books... but as someone with "vision" would you invest all of your money into your books now... or would you keep some of it to also invest sometime later when they began to take off in the market?

I'm sure you want your comic books to be successful NOW... but you understand that it takes TIME and INVESTING at the right TIME for you to see the greatest REWARD. Your VISION is over the LONG TERM... which may require sacrifices over the SHORT TERM.

Now, your definition of what is short term and mine may vary. Using your comic book as an example... I may see all of the work that you are putting into it and may think that they will be the next big thing this Christmas season. But you as the creator and owner may understand the market and economics within the industry and say... no, successful comic books take 3-5 years to take hold in the market and it may be another couple of years for a movie producer to decide to pitch it to movie studio and than it will be another 2 years for it to be made into a movie so really we are looking at 7 years before it will go big. I need to be patient, know when to invest capital at the appropriate time, know who to bring on to be a part of the team when the time is right, know what movie producer to pitch it to when it starts to take off, etc.

Your vision is much different from mine because you know details of the industry that I and others do not share. As I said before... I believe that I and others may be able to see AM's vision a little more clearly than you, Trea and others. We understand why AM is waiting for the big hitter and why he is building the team around pitching. But those are things that you cannot necessarily quantify... especially with a team sitting at 2-10.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These guys aren't stupid and I'm sure that while Markakis and Brob and AJ like their teammates, they realize that they don't have a Pedroia, or Youkilis, or ARod or Jeter or even a Robinson Cano on their squad. That's just plain reality.

MSK

Just want to point out that 4 of the 5 players you mention there were homegrown talent....just sayin'...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never once in a million posts said that this team can do no right.

I said I don't trust MacPhail's ability to turn this team into a contender.

Those are two different things.

Like I said in an earlier post, its easy to throw someone into a school of thought without thinking about what they're actually saying.

MSK

Who is typecasting you more than you've done to yourself in this thread? You place yourself in the school of thought when you say "who can argue with this" type questions.

By the way, here is the post you responded to--the one that prompted my response.

Originally Posted by JTrea81

Supposedly the perception of this franchise had changed under MacPhail. Yet there has been no effort really to test that theory.

We are still signing the mediocre FAs. Maybe we are getting them for less now, but the target talent level is still the same.

Damn. That's everything right there.

Who can argue this?

MSK

They're not different things in the right context. Perhaps you need to reread his post because his point is that nothing has changed. If you don't feel someone can argue with that logic, then that says a lot about your point of view toward the FO and their decision making under AMac's tenure. But even then, you're missing my point. I didn't even say you're wrong, which makes your response even more ironic. You're saying it's easy to throw someone into a school of thought, but every one of your posts does just that... regularly. Your question and general point of view is that people are apologists for this team, when that isn't how everyone sees it. That's my point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I should consider my impulse to question AM's decisions on occasion a birth defect?

It may be difficult to quantify vision in your philosophy, but it's not difficult to quantify horse manure in mine. Congratulations, you just won the MVP.

Who said that not being born without vision = birth defect??? You!

I said that people who do not have 'vision' are just as important and effective as those who do. I did not say they are dumb or intellectually inferior (and I know that you didn't either... but just in case you or someone else thought it). In addition, there are probably just as many people... if not more... who do not have 'vision' but are as successful if not more successful than those who have it.

Why? Because just as important as 'vision' is 'desire.' There are many people who have the desire that makes them successful - but perhaps have no or limited vision. And there are many who have vision but no or limited desire and they are not successful.

The brothers who started McDonald's had a lot of desire and limited vision. It took Ray Kroc to see what it could become and made it into what it is today.

There are other factors... but you and others don't need a lecture on leadership.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, given the fact that the Orioles have lost 8-9 games by a run or two... if they would have hit an even .200 with RISP they could very well be .500 by now.

Obviously they haven't, but those things even out. Here's hoping the strong starting pitching continues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This post merits a reply.

Vision is something that people are born with. Either you have vision - or the ability to look beyond the present and prepare for the future - or you don't. QUOTE]

I guess this is where he is getting the birth defect comment from. I for one have been a supporter in the fact that the Orioles need to do more. Playing sports all of my life, I have found out that confidence breeds success. You don't think our offense would suddenly be a lot more confident if we added the true stud hitter that we have so desperately needed? I think that the core we have is a great core to build around a true stud, but they are pressing too much at the plate, trying to be the super star that they simply aren't. Confidence brings chemistry, which turns into success in sports.

Simply put, if the Orioles were to go out and get an A Gon, it would show the fans that they are ready to win, the team that they are ready to win, and ultimately bring excitement back to Baltimore. We have sat and tried the mid level veterans long enough. We have the core to win now, if we just simply added a couple of pieces in my opinion. Lets give the fans and the team a shot in the arm finally! Sometimes to win, you have to take risks...instead of just sitting back and watching everyone else get better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to avoid most of this MSK marketing campaign post other than to say that this is an interesting statement coming from a guy that has had an open bet with another poster for months because he won't either spend the couple hours it takes to find the examples he is sure are out there OR just admit that he was wrong/overstated his position. Heck, you could have finished off the bet in the time you've taken to post in this thread.

One more thing. You've insulted me several times in the past while insinuating that I think a lot of myself. I better never hear that again after that post.

Or else what? Is this a threat? Your posts come off as arrogant and mean-spirited. That's not my doing, that's yours. And since I consider "ignoring" people the most childish thing a person can do to a non-troll, I just read what you write and move on without getting too upset because its a FREAKIN' MESSAGE BOARD.

The reason I included you three in particular is that you jump up to trash anyone that says anything negative about the team and its funny unless you guys work for the FO.

And the reason I didn't finish the bet tough guy -- and I talked about this with Lucky Jim -- was because I had a fire in my apartment a few months back. I lost a lot of things, and unfortunately, an internet bet became a lot less important.

There's even a thread about this somewhere in the MISC comments section. so before you try to "one up" me with you stunning lack of information and empathy, you might want to act like a human being.

Again, it appears that your hypocrisy is showing.

Your second sentence says that we only need to sign players for cash yet two of the three examples you provided in the sentence before it (Halladay & AGon) are only available through trade. Halladay was traded and AGon isn't a free agent yet. So, which is it, was your second sentence a mistatement or are you again using examples that don't support your thesis?

Regarding the one FA you mentioned, Lackey, you've gone on record as saying that you wouldn't have paid the money/years required to get Lackey. You wrote the same thing about Holliday. So, which is it, have you changed your mind and you would now beat the contracts that either/both of these guys signed or did you mistate what you wrote above. Because either you mispoke or you're being a hypocrite. You tell me.

I was wrong about a couple of things and I can admit that. But my general idea that we need to do something to improve the team doesn't change. Bottom line, I still say AM hasn't done much to deserve the benefit of the doubt, particularly in the FA market.

MSK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or else what? Is this a threat? Your posts come off as arrogant and mean-spirited. That's not my doing, that's yours. And since I consider "ignoring" people the most childish thing a person can do to a non-troll, I just read what you write and move on without getting too upset because its a FREAKIN' MESSAGE BOARD.

The reason I included you three in particular is that you jump up to trash anyone that says anything negative about the team and its funny unless you guys work for the FO.

And the reason I didn't finish the bet tough guy -- and I talked about this with Lucky Jim -- was because I had a fire in my apartment a few months back. I lost a lot of things, and unfortunately, an internet bet became a lot less important.

There's even a thread about this somewhere in the MISC comments section. so before you try to "one up" me with you stunning lack of information and empathy, you might want to act like a human being.

I was wrong about a couple of things and I can admit that. But my general idea that we need to do something to improve the team doesn't change. Bottom line, I still say AM hasn't done much to deserve the benefit of the doubt, particularly in the FA market.

MSK

I don't think we're close enough to competing to justify signing high-priced FAs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who said that not being born without vision = birth defect??? You!

I said that people who do not have 'vision' are just as important and effective as those who do. I did not say they are dumb or intellectually inferior (and I know that you didn't either... but just in case you or someone else thought it). In addition, there are probably just as many people... if not more... who do not have 'vision' but are as successful if not more successful than those who have it.

Why? Because just as important as 'vision' is 'desire.' There are many people who have the desire that makes them successful - but perhaps have no or limited vision. And there are many who have vision but no or limited desire and they are not successful.

The brothers who started McDonald's had a lot of desire and limited vision. It took Ray Kroc to see what it could become and made it into what it is today.

There are other factors... but you and others don't need a lecture on leadership.

Let’s take a look at some of what you actually said:

Vision is something that people are born with. Either you have vision - or the ability to look beyond the present and prepare for the future - or you don't. Most people who don't have "vision" often can't understand and comprehend those who do.

It is difficult to quantify vision... especially when you are on the outside looking in - therefore if you don't have it or understand it, it is easy to say - look, we're 1-10! or look - Bell and Snyder are hurt! or... look - we don't have that big bat! And on the other side it is difficult to be able to say "we believe in AM" and really don't see the results.

But those of us with vision... believe. And those who don't... will continue to pound away on AM.

It looks to me that you’ve constructed an environment populated by two distinct classes, let’s call them the “Haves” and the “Have Nots”, after all it’s explicit in your first paragraph. In fairness it should be noted that you’ve graciously found a place for those of us who you presume are not blessed with ‘vision’ in this Brave New World of yours. I guess we unfortunates don’t have “some of the necessities” in this regard, huh? I’m choosing my words carefully here.

I escapes me why all this convoluted pseudo-intellectualizing is necessary when it’s a simple case of one point-of-view vs. another but evidently you and others before you feel compelled to delve into an area most people are smart enough to leave alone. Do you honestly think anything good can come of dismissing another’s position as a congenital inability to understand?

I think that AM missed an opportunity or two this off season to improve the team. That puts me squarely in opposition to the conventional wisdom here and that’s perfectly OK by me. To attribute my or anyone else's position to an inborn lack of intellectual capacity isn’t OK.

In my opinion, have and have not theorizing licenses all kinds of sloppy thinking. If you want to see the consequences on the lives and careers of two basically decent men when that thought process is carelessly applied to the subject of race, then Google former baseball executive Al Campanis and former NFL broadcaster Jimmy ‘the Greek’ Snyder.

The debate over whether AM blew it this off season is sufficient on it's merits without the need to make it personal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They're not different things in the right context. Perhaps you need to reread his post because his point is that nothing has changed. If you don't feel someone can argue with that logic, then that says a lot about your point of view toward the FO and their decision making under AMac's tenure. But even then, you're missing my point. I didn't even say you're wrong, which makes your response even more ironic. You're saying it's easy to throw someone into a school of thought, but every one of your posts does just that... regularly. Your question and general point of view is that people are apologists for this team, when that isn't how everyone sees it. That's my point.

Okay, what do you call it when many other teams sign guys WE COULD USE and then folks get on here and start saying it was a good thing we didn't sign the premium FA?

To me, that screams apologist.

To me, that says that the FO missed the boat and some fans accept the FOs stunning ineptitude and try to back up those ridiculous decisions with long posts about how we'll "lose our future" because the guy will leave or we'll have to "give up our entire farm."

Its like there's some unspoken rule that you can't criticize AM around here unless you're approved by the OH Logic Squad. I don't know why a lot of the FO gets a free pass around here from some of the members, but if I am needlessly critical, some folks are ridiculously soft on the FO.

This happens every. Single. Time. We "try" to go for a major FA.

AM or PA makes token offer lower than other teams' STARTING BID.

We hear that we "tried" to get him.

FA signs with another team.

We hear that we "tried" to get him.

Rinse, cycle, repeat.

Some people on the OH will argue that we shouldn't have bid because the guy would = less than a certain percentage of wins. But when guys like Tex go someplace else, he puts up INCREDIBLE numbers that we could have used.

How many games this season have we have RISP and missed out on a clutch bat? How many games LAST season where we had RISP and missed out on a clutch at bat?

Its always someone saying that we don't need to sign this person or that person. WHICH IS FINE. But if someone says the FO sucks, they have the right to do that.

MSK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...