Sports Illustrated: Orioles Plan Flawed

[wildcard]

See this is the key. I wrote awhile ago that this season's success did not hinge on Atkins - it is all about these guys.

If those guys start performing like we all expected/ hoped then this season can be salvaged regardless of Atkins.

No question about that.

[Sports Guy]

See this is the key. I wrote awhile ago that this season's success did not hinge on Atkins - it is all about these guys.

If those guys start performing like we all expected/ hoped then this season can be salvaged regardless of Atkins.

This has very little to do with the point of the thread/article.

[wildcard]

This has very little to do with the point of the thread/article.

It has everything to do with the point of the thread. The Plan is not flawed. Many of the players are not playing close to their projected performance.

The O's could sign Pujol for $250M but if he hits to a 500 OPS it is not the GMs fault for acquiring him. It would be on Pujols. Same thing is true with the O's. The players have to live up to their potential or take the blame.

[glorydays]

You needed a third baseman, Beltre was not going to come here without a ton of money that would be wasted.

Tejada has shown that he is at least a capable third baseman and his bat has not been half bad either and seems to be heating up.

Meanwhile Beltre has shown no power in a park that was supposedly going to help him this year, and Tejada already has four homers and an OPS about 100 points higher.

All for half the price.

Atkins, however, was the stop-gappiest of moves and a weak one at that. I think AM fully expected to see one of Hughes, Bell or Snyder in Baltimore by mid season and Atkins was signed as a place-holder nothing more.

The suck of Atkins, the overall offensive slump and Hughes forced the issue.

Still would have rather had LaRoche, that is something AM missed out on that I really wish would have gone another way.

I'm just saying... if you place that high of a value on defense and your young pitching - you don't put 2 players at positions that they really have never played at before in one offseason. I agree that Tejada has worked out... but where would we be if he hadn't? If every third ball hit to 3rd resulted in an error? It was a chance... and you perhaps take one chance per season... but 2 is a bit extreme IMO.

[mweb]

Of course I don't know the details of what AM's plan is going forward, but to this point, I don't think it's been flawed much if at all. Now the execution has been poor in some cases, such as signing Atkins and not doing a better job on the pen. So there are things I would have done differently of course, but overall I agree with the general plan so far.

[wildcard]

I'm just saying... if you place that high of a value on defense and your young pitching - you don't put 2 players at positions that they really have never played at before in one offseason. I agree that Tejada has worked out... but where would we be if he hadn't? If every third ball hit to 3rd resulted in an error? It was a chance... and you perhaps take one chance per season... but 2 is a bit extreme IMO.

Kind of a weak argument IMO. You say Miggi has worked out and Atkins defense is certainly not the reason the O's are where they are.

The problems are the 1) offense - And half the player2 have not performed up to their projections. And 2) the bullpen. MacPhail has to take some blame for signing Gonzo but Johnson is underperforming. The back end of the pen's failure has thrown most the rest of the pen into crisis mode.

[eddie83]

This year wasn't the end of the plan. I wasn't as down on the Atkins move as most and it doesn't look good but as others pointed out he wasn't signed to carry the team. Capps looks much much better than Gonzalez right now but if you looked at their numbers Gonzo definately has the better stuff, especially for this division. Miggy is fine and I really don't know why Izturis and Lugo names were brought up.

Andy has to finish what he started but he didn't have to do it this year.

[wildcard]

This year wasn't the end of the plan. I wasn't as down on the Atkins move as most and it doesn't look good but as others pointed out he wasn't signed to carry the team. Capps looks much much better than Gonzalez right now but if you looked at their numbers Gonzo definately has the better stuff, especially for this division. Miggy is fine and I really don't know why Izturis and Lugo names were brought up.

Andy has to finish what he started but he didn't have to do it this year.

Valvarde would have been a better choice than Capps or Gonzo IMO.

[BrunoCherrytown]

Honestly, I personally am tired of hearing that AM is not creative enough and did a crap job this offseason. I'd like to hear some legitimate names that would have improved our team this year as well as the future. Overspending on Holliday? Overspending on Laroche? Trading away half of our farm for Agon?

I think you just proposed 3. You just don't agree with those who have that opinion.

Now if we wanted to improve for this year this could've realistically been done in my eyes. And I proposed it on Roch's blog in the offseason and i'm sure many have here as well.

I'm in the minority on this as well and I realize it, but that's what having differing opinions is all about.

I would've absolutely traded top prospects not named Matusz/Wieters for AGon. My idea was Jones (as he's a San Diego guy) and Pie could've taken his place in Center. With Jones you could put Arrieta or Tillman and then fill it out with Single A/Double A prospects - who - I don't know.

And then to fill the Jones hole I would've "overbid" on Holliday.

Yes he was wayyyyy too expensive, but I'm not too worried about bad contracts eating into the bottom line when Angelos hasn't worried about budget payrolls eating into the performance for many years.

Now the hindsight on that works both ways. Pie getting injured would've hurt us one way...but Jones' value dropped through the floor with his lack of development to this point this season. And who knows if Pie would've gotten injured is the same as who knew Jones would at least temporarily regress. Cuts both ways.

But that's what I would've done. And yes I would've put a market value extension offer to AGon and hope he takes it. Because you have to take chances.

Now that would put our payroll in the middle of the pack I'm guessing. Maybe upper-middle. But it wouldn't blow the bank this year as AGon has that time left on his contract

And by the time those $22-$25million a year hits come in on him our attendance/MASN viewership/Merchandise etc. would most likely be up because the product on the field would be exciting and worth watching.

But that's a risk and you have to take risks in business. We don't at the moment.

But I realize i'm in the 1% who liked that route. I wouldn't have wanted Holliday without AGon. Only reason I wanted Holliday is it seemed like a logical way to get around "trading the entire farm away" by throwing in Jones.

I like Jones - I think he will be great. And if he is great in San Diego and AGon was great here - it'd be a win-win. And that's not the worst thing in the world as Beckett/Lowell for Hanley and friends was a win-win.

[El Gordo]

Why would anyone care what a women's swimwear magazine writes about baseball.:rolleyestf:

[Sports Guy]

It has everything to do with the point of the thread. The Plan is not flawed. Many of the players are not playing close to their projected performance.

The O's could sign Pujol for $250M but if he hits to a 500 OPS it is not the GMs fault for acquiring him. It would be on Pujols. Same thing is true with the O's. The players have to live up to their potential or take the blame.

But Pujols would eventually be good...no reason to think that will happen with a guy like Atkins.

The plan can't just be to get a good group of young talent in here...the plan has to be more than that...The "more than that" part has been done terribly.

[Roll Tide]

Kind of a weak argument IMO. You say Miggi has worked out and Atkins defense is certainly not the reason the O's are where they are.

The problems are the 1) offense - And half the player2 have not performed up to their projections. And 2) the bullpen. MacPhail has to take some blame for signing Gonzo but Johnson is underperforming. The back end of the pen's failure has thrown most the rest of the pen into crisis mode.

No his hitting is .... His SLG is .284 & His average with runners in scoring position are horrendous. What would the Orioles record be if his slugging was in line with his career average. True the relief pitching has struggled & you could blame Johnson & company for being bad out there. Hurt or not AM whiffed on Gonzalez & there were better options. He's whiffed on Atkins & there were better options.

[Runs2the1Show]

But Pujols would eventually be good...no reason to think that will happen with a guy like Atkins.

The plan can't just be to get a good group of young talent in here...the plan has to be more than that...The "more than that" part has been done terribly.

I do agree with you. I think that AM was really counting on a large improvement from guys like Wieters, Jones, Reimold, and Pie. I think he was counting on a bounce back season from Nick.

And if those things happened, AM would look like a genius. But Jones has regressed, Nick has put up OK numbers, and Wieters has hit for no power. Tejada has been a nice complement, but as it has been mentioned before, we didn't go out and get a big difference maker.

I truly believe AM was expecting huge improvements from the young guys. He was right about the pitching, but so far, not about the hitting.

[Sports Guy]

I do agree with you. I think that AM was really counting on a large improvement from guys like Wieters, Jones, Reimold, and Pie. I think he was counting on a bounce back season from Nick.

And if those things happened, AM would look like a genius. But Jones has regressed, Nick has put up OK numbers, and Wieters has hit for no power. Tejada has been a nice complement, but as it has been mentioned before, we didn't go out and get a big difference maker.

I truly believe AM was expecting huge improvements from the young guys. He was right about the pitching, but so far, not about the hitting.

And it was/is perfectly reasonable to expect those things...I did too...We all did...And I think it will still come to fruition.

But that doesn't change the idea that he has done a pretty bad job of augmenting that core.

[JTrea81]

See this is the key. I wrote awhile ago that this season's success did not hinge on Atkins - it is all about these guys.

If those guys start performing like we all expected/ hoped then this season can be salvaged regardless of Atkins.

That's a big if.

The reason these young guys are struggling is because they aren't ready to carry an offense yet. They are only in their 1st or 2nd full year in the majors.

Remember Jones only played in 119 games last season and only 132 in the season before that so this is kind of his second year as well.

As for Markakis, he is doing a lot better since he has been moved out of a run producing position and put into a run scoring one...

If Tejada can continue his offensive push, they might have something, but considering he's 35 that's a big if.

There were better options out there to carry an offense. This article is right on point IMO. Too much was expected of the young players too soon and they didn't get enough help to help them succeed.

That is all MacPhail's fault. He's likely set us back at least one year with the awful offseason he had.