Bunt to break up a no-no? (Longoria vs Braden)

[Spoonless]

What if it's 4-0? Maybe even 5- or 6-0, depending on the inning? That's not an unreasonable comeback. Even by those scores, there's still a lot of managers that would try and bunt a guy over to at least get a run and maybe start a rally.

You said "as late as the ninth." In the 8th or 9th inning, down by 4 or 5 runs, you're not likely going to see a sacrifice bunt to get a runner to 2nd. Earlier than that in the game, and it's a viable strategy.

The "unwritten rule" comes into play when the game is clearly out of reach, and you're bunting for the sole reason to break up a no-hitter. Would you advocate a sacrifice bunt in the 7th inning, down 8-0?

For the record, it doesn't bother me if someone tries to bunt for a base hit at any point in a game, regardless of the score. I'm just trying to clarify the "unwritten rule" portion of it. The situations you are describing don't fall under it because at the time the bunt is being employed, it is a viable strategy to try to win the game. The rule comes into effect when there is clearly no strategic reason to bunt other than to deny the other team a no-hitter (which is fine in my book).

[orayole]

There's nothing wrong with bunting for a base hit. It's not the hitter's job to give the pitcher a perfect game. It's a legit, legal part of the game. An underused part of the game.

Throwing a fuss over a bunt is just childish.

[Miller192]

There's nothing wrong with bunting for a base hit. It's not the hitter's job to give the pitcher a perfect game. It's a legit, legal part of the game. An underused part of the game.

Throwing a fuss over a bunt is just childish.

There's nothing wrong with it. When it happened to me, I understood why. They didn't want me getting a no hitter.

That's fine, it didn't hurt my feelings. I put the guy on his ass and we move on. I don't like what he did but so what?

[TakebackOPACY]

Some of you will remember talking about this when the O's brought Ben Davis up. The link is to an article about Davis breaking up a potential Schilling no-no with 1 out in the 8th inning in a 3-0 game.

[Can_of_corn]

Some of you will remember talking about this when the O's brought Ben Davis up. The link is to an article about Davis breaking up a potential Schilling no-no with 1 out in the 8th inning in a 3-0 game.

It was a 2-0 game and it broke up a perfect game, not a no-no.

[TakebackOPACY]

It was a 2-0 game and it broke up a perfect game, not a no-no.

But a perfect game is a no-no

[BaltimoreTerp]

There's nothing wrong with it. When it happened to me, I understood why. They didn't want me getting a no hitter.

That's fine, it didn't hurt my feelings. I put the guy on his ass and we move on. I don't like what he did but so what?

And I actually think this, if a bit over-the-top, is fine. If I were the batter, I probably would expect the same thing.

However, if I'm the batter and you had made some big deal over the "rules", either during the game like Braden v. Rodriguez or afterwards, then you threw at me, I'm coming to the mound for a little chat

[RShack]

If the game is still within reach, there's nothing wrong with it, and no ballplayer would say there is. Anybody who says that doesn't know beans about baseball. If the game is out of reach and you're just doing it to screw with the P, then that's rotten. But that wasn't the case in this example. As for where the line is, well, it's a judgment call, based on some combo of score and inning. Impossible to have a 1-size-fits-all rule about this...

[scOtt]

Here's a question I'd like to ask anyone that thinks in the general terms (not the idea of close games versus blowouts, for example) of bunting being taboo under the circumstances.

Let's say that a pitcher has a no-hitter, even as late as the ninth inning. A guy gets on first by walk or error, than the next batter comes up to try and sacrifice the guy to second. In the course of that bunt, it goes in just the right spot to give him an infield hit.

Did he break the rule by bunting for a hit?

My opinion on the whole issue is that unwritten rules in general are stupid. The ones that suggest an opponent should not do whatever it takes to win a game are even worse. So this whole bunting "rule" is just the forlorn hope of pitchers or managers angry that they or their teammates could not do what was needed to get that batter out.

Another great angle on this question. Final word, even! It all boils down to the score. The closer the score, the more "cool" it is to bunt. If you're just trying to "protect the record" it's a kitty move. If it's a one-run-game in the ninth... all bets are off! Shades of grey between the extremes...

[scOtt]

Another great angle on this question. Final word, even! It all boils down to the score. The closer the score, the more "cool" it is to bunt. If you're just trying to "protect the record" it's a kitty move. If it's a one-run-game in the ninth... all bets are off! Shades of grey between the extremes...

You want your No-Hitter/Perfect Game? Finish it.

[Dipper9]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Braden-s-perfecto-could-ve-ended-on-an-unwritten?urn=mlb,239740

Braden's perfecto could've ended on an unwritten rule violation

With a perfect game and a hug from his grandma, Dallas Braden's(notes) Mother's Day had an ending suitable for framing.

The funny part is that the Oakland A's pitcher could have found himself in the similar position of angrily trying to teach a star third baseman from the American League East about the unwritten rules of baseball.

With no outs in the fifth inning and Oakland winning 4-0, Tampa Bay's Evan Longoria(notes) tried to get aboard with a bunt. The attempt went foul and Longoria ended up striking out while swinging, but his debatable breach of etiquette did not go unnoticed. The partisan crowd at the Oakland Coliseum booed (though Braden was able to keep his composure just a little bit better than the time Alex Rodriguez(notes) walked over his pitcher's mound).

I say debatable, of course, because not everyone is against bunting to break up a pitcher's bid for history. And — what are the odds? — those people are usually in the crew that's being dragged kicking and screaming into the halls of history.

From MLB.com:

(Rays manager Joe) Maddon said he was fine with Longoria's attempt to get something started with a bunt, although some might consider that a violation of one of baseball's unwritten rules.

Bunting to break up a perfect game or no-hitter might just be the most controversial unwritten rule in the unwritten book. And it's probably the most confusing, too. If Ichiro Suzuki(notes) can lead off a game with a bunt single to get things started — hey, the pitcher had a perfect game going then, too — why can't another player do it a few innings later?

[Rewind: Braden slams A-Rod for other unwritten rule.]

But squaring around on a bunt in the later innings just doesn't seem kosher, so are we just talking about timing here? And maybe the margin on the scoreboard? If so, when is the cutoff on bunting? What's the minimum lead a team needs to hold before bunting becomes a no-no?

In this case, I can't side with Maddon and Longoria. Yes, the "get things going" argument might hold water if it wasn't Tampa Bay's best power hitter that was trying to bunt his way aboard. But a Longoria homer or a double to the gap could have sparked things just as easily — and might have even been more likely to happen than a bunt — so I think we have to wonder if the possibility of being on the wrong side of a perfect game for the second straight season was creeping into the mind of the Rays. Braden and the A's would've had a right to be peeved if Longoria's bunt had stayed fair and he found his way aboard.

What do you think?

The 5th inning is not LATE in the game. I have no problem what-so-ever with the bunt. Now, if he does it in the 8th or 9th inning, that's a whole different story, but in the fifth inning, like Maddon said, you're trying to win a ballgame here.

Braden better watch himself or he is gonna get the reputation of being a crybaby. All these so called unwritten rules. Just pitch the game Braden!

[DrungoHazewood]

If you can't defend a bunt you don't deserve a no hitter.