Too much negativism every time we lose

[Stotle]

How did Hahn look? He's missed several starts due to kidney stones as well as some arm soreness. Glad to see him get back on the mound before the ACC tournament.

Solid for first game back. Wasn't helped by fielding and caught a bad break on a comebacker that bounced into his jersey. Was 93-94 in the first, hitting 95 on some other guns (never topped 94 on mine). Settled into 91-92 for 2nd through 4th. By my count, I think only two balls were put in play in the air against him -- he was rusty early and walked 3 in the 1st. Overall, solid for first game back.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Seems like with RShack on a vacation there are numerous posters ready to take his spot. Really, what's the point of this thread, Frobby?

Amazing how easy it is to be all "there's too much negativity" when you didn't watch the game. You should know as well as anyone that fans are more emotionally attached when they actually watch the game.

Honestly, I'm getting tired of these threads and posts. People are negative about Saturday nights game because Simon and Merideth blew a win for Matusz, allowed eight runs after the Indians were shutdown for 8 innings, blew a three-game winning streak, blew a guarenteed series win, and generally punched every fan who watching the game in the gut.

Did Frobby say he didn't watch the game? Honest question; I may well have missed him say it.

In this case, I would agree about how Saturday nights' game affected fans. However, this is more of a bad timing issue than a bad thread issue as this kind of thing happens after every loss.

People overreact. People post criticisms that they wouldn't have posted had the team won, even under the same circumstances other than the final score. It's natural, but annoying especially to people who are better able to keep their emotions in check.

I don't think a comparison to RShack is in order here, as he is often argumentative for the sake of angering people. Frobby may post questions that go against the overall feeling of the board, but that's not the same thing at all.

[osfan83]

This board should be nothing but negative. I have friends that are Phillies fans and Mets fans, and they are down on their teams all the time. Could you imagine, going to two straight WS, winning one, and still being critical of your team? People look at me and ask why waste your time with the O's. Dose of reality, 12 straight losing seasons, and now the worst team in baseball. We are treading on histocally bad. How can anyone get on an O's fan that is negative right now. This team could win the next 6 games in a row, and we would still all have more than enough reasons to be negative. Rooting for the Washington Generals would be more satisfying than being an O's fan!

[Going Underground]

Ok, here is a nice stat. Since July 1,2009 to present the O's record is 41-81,

40 games under .500. You can do small stats and large stats but the Orioles have not been very good over a long period and over many years.

[osfan83]

Ok, here is a nice stat. Since July 1,2009 to present the O's record is 41-81,

40 games under .500. You can do small stats and large stats but the Orioles have not been very good over a long period and over many years.

Wow...that's a long period of really bad baseball. I wonder if you took the entire team playing at Bowie right now and had them play the next 122 games on the O's schedule how much worse their record would be...I bet it wouldn't be too much worse.

[Frobby]

Seems like with RShack on a vacation there are numerous posters ready to take his spot. Really, what's the point of this thread, Frobby?

Amazing how easy it is to be all "there's too much negativity" when you didn't watch the game. You should know as well as anyone that fans are more emotionally attached when they actually watch the game.

Honestly, I'm getting tired of these threads and posts. People are negative about Saturday nights game because Simon and Merideth blew a win for Matusz, allowed eight runs after the Indians were shutdown for 8 innings, blew a three-game winning streak, blew a guarenteed series win, and generally punched every fan who watching the game in the gut.

OK, Tony, I will accept that criticism. Just to try to explain myself, I'm not saying that people shouldn't be posting negative stuff after a loss (or even after a win, if they'd like). I'm saying the degree of negativity seems to be exaggerated because we started the season 2-16. People are acting as if we are still in a 2-16 stretch, but we're not. We'd gone 10-8 and had won three in a row before that loss, so in my opinion the reaction shouldn't be the same as if we'd lost our 8th game in a row or something. Having said that, I admitted that I didn't see the game, and I do know it hits me harder when I'm watching it unfold. Anyway, I get the point and won't harp on this any further. Hopefully the O's will give us something to be positive about.

[osfan83]

OK, Tony, I will accept that criticism. Just to try to explain myself, I'm not saying that people shouldn't be posting negative stuff after a loss (or even after a win, if they'd like). I'm saying the degree of negativity seems to be exaggerated because we started the season 2-16. People are acting as if we are still in a 2-16 stretch, but we're not. We'd gone 10-8 and had won three in a row before that loss, so in my opinion the reaction shouldn't be the same as if we'd lost our 8th game in a row or something. Having said that, I admitted that I didn't see the game, and I do know it hits me harder when I'm watching it unfold. Anyway, I get the point and won't harp on this any further. Hopefully the O's will give us something to be positive about.

The degree of negatism is in proportion to the amount of losing over the longer term. 41-81 is a lot of losing, a 3 game win streak followed by 2 bad loses in the midst of a 41-81 stretch and 12+ losing seasons. If the O's had won 80 game last year, and were a game over .500 when the Saturday night collapse took place I'm sure there would be much less negatisvm.

[SilentJames]

Oh I agree the bullpen has improved, but that's the pieces improving, and getting Koji healthy which doesn't have much to do with the way Trembley uses the bullpen. I see where your coming from, and I know that deep down it doesn't have a huge impact on this specific game, however, I just don't feel that Trembley utilizes the bullpen in the most efficient manner. I'm only using last night as an example since it's so fresh. If I had the time I'd go back and find countless others... I just think that roles are overrated, especially if you're just a mediocre team like us you need to go outside of those roles or disregard them every once in a while (let Albers finish the 8th, what if he only throws 10 pitches? Let him start the ninth, he has five days rest, once he allows a base runner throw Simon in there).

See that last part right here, you lost me. because very VERY few managers, I don't want to say none but it is dang close, would do that. The closer is (love it or hate it) a position in baseball now. I can't think of a single manager that would not send his closer out to start the ninth nursing a two run lead, so long as he was physically available.

Moreover why bring Simon into a position where he has an even slimmer margin of error with a man on base? Why not just put him in there with the bases empty? Simon is not Papelbon or Rivera he is not a shut down guy. He is a hard thrower that, when on, has a lot of movement on his pitches.

[Sapper]

Honestly, people, every time we lose a game there's so much negativism here. News flash - even the optimists think we won't be much more than a .500-ish team from here on out -- that means we'll probably lose another 60+ times even if things go well. We can't get suicidal or overly dramatic every time it happens.

As to Simon, he's simply not going to be that consistent. He has an 83 percent save rate now - get used to it. That's about what Jorge Julio did in his years as our closer. So don't jump off a bridge if he blows one every 2-4 weeks.

The team is 10-9 its last 19 games, but a lot of folks seem to think we're stlll playing .111 baseball. Forget the bad start, and forget about making up for it by playing like we are a great team. Just avoid any long losing streaks going forward and see how the year goes.

Have you followed this team for the past 13 years? What is there to be exuberant about?

Why should anyone pick out arcane, meaningless facts like 10-9 over the last 19 as if we should cheer? This team has stunk, continues to stink and will stink for the foreseeable future.

The Hindenberg made 3 of its last 4 voyages without bursting into flames. The Titanic made it almost halfway across the North Atlantic before plunging into the freezing depths of the the ocean. Who the hell cares?

[TonySoprano]

Why should anyone pick out arcane, meaningless facts like 10-9 over the last 19 as if we should cheer?

Because, as it has been said hundreds of times, lower and lower expectations are a way of life for Orioles fans.

[H0smash]

See that last part right here, you lost me. because very VERY few managers, I don't want to say none but it is dang close, would do that. The closer is (love it or hate it) a position in baseball now. I can't think of a single manager that would not send his closer out to start the ninth nursing a two run lead, so long as he was physically available.

Moreover why bring Simon into a position where he has an even slimmer margin of error with a man on base? Why not just put him in there with the bases empty? Simon is not Papelbon or Rivera he is not a shut down guy. He is a hard thrower that, when on, has a lot of movement on his pitches.

I did that more to appease the current-day manager, because I know that none of them would stray away from their closer. However, with the O's, I think that's a problem, we don't have Papelbon or Rivera, and who knows if we ever will. I think the manager of the O's needs to be a little more creative and think outside of the box if he wants to get wins. Trembley tries to manage the O's as if we have players like the Yanks and the Red Sox, let's face it, we don't and I don't know if we ever will. I think that Trembley would do a fine job with either of those teams, but his style isn't going to get us past those two teams, either. I have no idea if there is a manager who would go outside the box of the current system that managers basically live by, but if there is that is the guy I would like to be in charge of turning this team around.

[LookinUp]

Imagine if we had Smoak in our lineup and Leake in our rotation instead of just Matusz in our rotation?

I don't often neg rep folks, but I smelled this post out a mile away and actually decided to do some research. Hindsight is 20/20, my friend, but it shouldn't be passed off as if it was common knowledge at the time. I found this quote from Trea:

Leake would just be a horrible pick at #5...

After I challenged him on the point, Trea said this:

I'd rather take a HS pitcher with a higher upside.

I'm just not a fan of the college pitchers. Leake's stature concerns me as well as the abuse his arm has taken in college. I don't know if he'd be able to hold up under a full season.

He also started this thread about college arms racking up mileage. Not a bad thread, by the way, just interesting that he pointed out Leake as a negative.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80364&highlight=Leake

In Churchill's latest he talks about the abuse that potential first round college arms are taking and it's one of the reasons I want us to avoid a college arm at all costs.

Mike Leake threw 138 pitches in his last outing,...

And, his original pick for #5, before he jumped on the Matzek bandwagon:

Rich Poythress, 1B

Poythress was drafted #51 overall. He also said that the Nats should take Ackley over Strasburg, for what it's worth.

[H0smash]

I don't often neg rep folks, but I smelled this post out a mile away and actually decided to do some research. Hindsight is 20/20, my friend, but it shouldn't be passed off as if it was common knowledge at the time. I found this quote from Trea:

After I challenged him on the point, Trea said this:

He also started this thread about college arms racking up mileage. Not a bad thread, by the way, just interesting that he pointed out Leake as a negative.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80364&highlight=Leake

And, his original pick for #5, before he jumped on the Matzek bandwagon:

Poythress was drafted #51 overall. He also said that the Nats should take Ackley over Strasburg, for what it's worth.

Well done. You probably won't get a reply, though. I also tried to show him by comparison that Matusz shows a great deal more promise than Leake, and I'm not sure how successful Leake would be in the AL East. Also, if you want to compare Matusz to Smoak it's kind of difficult, but I would be happy if Matusz turns into an above average #2, which I think is pretty realistic, even if Smoak turns into a very, very good 1B. Maybe Hobgood can bring a power bat back in a deal someday, or if he becomes a middle-of-the-rotation starter who can eat up innings, I'm pretty sure him+Matusz > Smoak + Leake.

[Mackus]

I don't often neg rep folks, but I smelled this post out a mile away and actually decided to do some research. Hindsight is 20/20, my friend, but it shouldn't be passed off as if it was common knowledge at the time. I found this quote from Trea:

After I challenged him on the point, Trea said this:

He also started this thread about college arms racking up mileage. Not a bad thread, by the way, just interesting that he pointed out Leake as a negative.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80364&highlight=Leake

And, his original pick for #5, before he jumped on the Matzek bandwagon:

Poythress was drafted #51 overall. He also said that the Nats should take Ackley over Strasburg, for what it's worth.

[JTrea81]

I'll admit I was wrong about Leake thus far. And it didn't have to be him BTW, as he's just the best example of a college pitcher having success a year after Matusz was taken.

We could have taken more advanced HS arms than Hobgood as well.

The point is we didn't need to take Matusz as much as we needed to take Smoak's bat during that draft because of the lack of advanced bats in the next couple of drafts.

Jordan should have been looking ahead at the classes to see what would likely be out there and not have drafted in a vaccum.