AM lied when he said this season was about winning

[Sports Guy]

Yea, you can't really blame AM for the young players failing right now.

You can blame him for not augmenting the core good enough and you can fault him for not putting the right coaches around them but these players need to be held accountable for their own actions.

No one they should all be sucking this bad.

[JTrea81]

But there was depth! We had 5 league average of better outfielders. 1 got hurt and 3 crapped the bed until Scott's recent hot week.

Jones had issues with injuries and performance, ditto for Pie, Reimold had offseason surgery. Markakis had a down year, and Luke Scott was streaky as always.

There were several questions in our OF going into the offseason. It was hardly solid.

We had Wigginton backing up 1B, 2B, and 3B, so 2B wasn't a complete disaster when Roberts went down.

Wigginton was a disaster in 2009. I can only think of where we'd be if he wasn't hitting well. He certainly wasn't anybody MacPhail should have been counting on to start the season as a regular.

And MacPhail knew about the Roberts injury before ST and the best he could do was Julio Lugo?

[H0smash]

Yeah. I've noted before that no one really has insurance against low-probability, catastrophic events.

Who buys meteor insurance, you know? And this season has been one of those low-probability catastrophic events. Much more so than any other season I can remember, including 1988.

I guess that means we need to wine and dine this offseason: sign Crawford, Cliff Lee, and trade for Adrian Gonzalez baby! Lookout for the O's next year!

But seriously, hopefully our OF can get it's act together, our pitching continues to improve, we can trade for a decent offensive SS (who has a good glove) and/or find a diamond in the rough somewhere at first base.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Yeah. I've noted before that no one really has insurance against low-probability, catastrophic events.

Who buys meteor insurance, you know?

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Peter "I'm pretty sure we've never had a volcano either"

Salesman: "Well, don't you think we're overdue for one?"

Peter: "Touche salesman"

[JTrea81]

Yea, you can't really blame AM for the young players failing right now.

You can blame him for not augmenting the core good enough and you can fault him for not putting the right coaches around them but these players need to be held accountable for their own actions.

No one they should all be sucking this bad.

You can blame him for thinking all these guys were ready to take the next step and would carry the offense in their second full ML season.

All you have to do is look around at the younger players on other teams to see how long it took them to acclimate. Not everybody is going to be Evan Longoria.

His plan depends on these players succeeding, and yet he didn't surround them with what they needed to win.

[wildcard]

I liked the Gonzalez move so I don't consider that a bad move yet. Even if he overpaid, there was no way Gonzo should have been this ineffective at the start, and his injury concerns weren't super drastic.

I'll give you that Valverde, Soriano, or Capps could have been better signings, but not that Gonzalez was a bad signing. It just has worked out about as terribly as could have been imagined so far, I think it will turn around once he gets back.

You are giving MacPhail the benefit of the doubt on Gonzo. I really can't. When you compare Gonzo with Valverde the durability stood out last winter and it came to pass in at the beginning of his contract. But whether it was a the beginning or somewhere during the two years, it was predictable.

I fully agree with the rest on your points that MacPhail is deal with more then any GM can plan for. Most of this is clearly on the players.

[DrungoHazewood]

Jones had issues with injuries and performance, ditto for Pie, Reimold had offseason surgery. Markakis had a down year, and Luke Scott was streaky as always.

There were several questions in our OF going into the offseason. It was hardly solid.

I'm sure it all could have been fixed up nicely with a small $20M payment every year through 2018 for Matt Holliday.

Wigginton was a disaster in 2009. I can only think of where we'd be if he wasn't hitting well. He certainly wasn't anybody MacPhail should have been counting on to start the season as a regular.

He wasn't. Wigginton was a reserve.

And MacPhail knew about the Roberts injury before ST and the best he could do was Julio Lugo?

I think you're doing pretty well when you acquire a middle infielder with a career OPS over .700, coming off a year with a .350+ OBP, for a PTBNL. Lugo and Wigginton as backups has the makings of an excellent bench. I really don't understand the criticism of the Lugo acquisition at all. I'd really like to hear the better options that were out there, even earlier in the offseason.

[JTrea81]

I think you're doing pretty well when you acquire a middle infielder with a career OPS over .700, coming off a year with a .350+ OBP, for a PTBNL. Lugo and Wigginton as backups has the makings of an excellent bench. I really don't understand the criticism of the Lugo acquisition at all. I'd really like to hear the better options that were out there, even earlier in the offseason.

Felipe Lopez, Mike Aviles, Joaquin Arias to name a few.

[Lucky Jim]

Peter "I'm pretty sure we've never had a volcano either"

Salesman: "Well, don't you think we're overdue for one?"

Peter: "Touche salesman"

I think I have a new catchphrase.

[Lucky Jim]

I think you're doing pretty well when you acquire a middle infielder with a career OPS over .700, coming off a year with a .350+ OBP, for a PTBNL. Lugo and Wigginton as backups has the makings of an excellent bench. I really don't understand the criticism of the Lugo acquisition at all. I'd really like to hear the better options that were out there, even earlier in the offseason.

I agree. I couldn't figure out the anti-Lugo stuff, either. Seemed a good pick-up, to me.

[wildcard]

You can blame him for thinking all these guys were ready to take the next step and would carry the offense in their second full ML season.

All you have to do is look around at the younger players on other teams to see how long it took them to acclimate. Not everybody is going to be Evan Longoria.

His plan depends on these players succeeding, and yet he didn't surround them with what they needed to win.

Can't agree with this. Many fans would be screaming blood murder if MacPhail did make room for the young guys to get their at bats. Just look how much high roar there was about having four outfielders that all needed playing time.

Blaming MacPhail for playing young players is not the answer.

[Sports Guy]

You can blame him for thinking all these guys were ready to take the next step and would carry the offense in their second full ML season.

All you have to do is look around at the younger players on other teams to see how long it took them to acclimate. Not everybody is going to be Evan Longoria.

His plan depends on these players succeeding, and yet he didn't surround them with what they needed to win.

You felt Wieters was ready to take a huge step...You also felt that way about Jones.

You told me that you felt Jones, Markakis, Scott, Wieters, BRob, Reimold and Pie would give us a 790ish OPS.

So, you felt that these guys would be a whole lot better than they have been...We all felt that way. Anyone with any ability to evaluate young talent felt they would be better.

That has nothing to do with not getting Matt Holliday.

That has to do with these guys just not performing at the levels they are capable of.

Now, maybe some of that is the fault of coaching...I don't doubt that. Some of it may be poor development by this organization...I certainly don't doubt that.

But a lot of it is the players just playing poorly right now and that is on them.

[DrungoHazewood]

Felipe Lopez, Mike Aviles, Joaquin Arias to name a few.

How are any of those guys better options than Lugo? Arias had a .630 OPS in the PCL last year. Aviles was hurt, didn't make the Royals' opening roster, and isn't much of a shortstop. Lopez barely got any interest from anyone, and is just a reserve on the Cardinals. There isn't a dime's difference between any of them and Lugo. You're only picking him out because he's an Oriole and MacPhail signed him.

[JTrea81]

Can't agree with this. Many fans would be screaming blood murder if MacPhail did make room for the young guys to get their at bats. Just look how much high roar there was about having four outfielders that all needed playing time.

Blaming MacPhail for playing young players is not the answer.

There were plenty of holes where established talent could have been filled in, 1B being one of them.

The Orioles failed to take advantage of their payroll room and the fact they were one of only a few teams that had that room to take on salary to make some difference making acquisitions.

Miguel Cabrera could have been an Oriole for instance if MacPhail had wanted to pay the price for him.

[waroriole]

There were plenty of holes where established talent could have been filled in, 1B being one of them.

The Orioles failed to take advantage of their payroll room and the fact they were one of only a few teams that had that room to take on salary to make some difference making acquisitions.

Miguel Cabrera could have been an Oriole for instance if MacPhail had wanted to pay the price for him.

Show proof, not your speculation, that Miguel Cabrera was on the trading block.

Even if he was available, you don't know that it would have been a good move to trade for him, considering what we might have to give up. Yet, you will still say AM screwed up and wonder why nobody takes you seriously.