AM lied when he said this season was about winning

[JTrea81]

How are any of those guys better options than Lugo? Arias had a .630 OPS in the PCL last year. Aviles was hurt, didn't make the Royals' opening roster, and isn't much of a shortstop. Lopez barely got any interest from anyone, and is just a reserve on the Cardinals. There isn't a dime's difference between any of them and Lugo. You're only picking him out because he's an Oriole and MacPhail signed him.

Joaquin Arias has always been a good defender but has had little power. He hits for average though and gets on base at a decent clip.

Mike Aviles was one of the best defensive SS's in baseball in 2008 with a 24.0 UZR/150 in 91 games and he tore up ST only to be sent down to AAA.

Lopez may be a reserve, but he's a reserve with a .779 OPS.

All of these players would have been better bench options than Lugo, and with Arias and Aviles, could have been potential LT solutions at SS.

[waroriole]

Joaquin Arias has always been a good defender but has had little power. He hits for average though and gets on base at a decent clip.

Mike Aviles was one of the best defensive SS's in baseball in 2008.

Lopez may be a reserve, but he's a reserve with a .779 OPS.

You still haven't shown how they're better than Lugo.

[DrungoHazewood]

Show proof, not your speculation, that Miguel Cabrera was on the trading block.

Even if he was available, you don't know that it would have been a good move to trade for him, considering what we might have to give up. Yet, you will still say AM screwed up and wonder why nobody takes you seriously.

Also, I'd like to see an analysis of the hypothetical transaction and how it wasn't going to cost so much talent and resources that it negatively impacted the future of the team. The Orioles aren't going to win by giving up $100M and Tillman and Britton in exchange for one guy.

[Lucky Jim]

You still haven't shown how they're better than Lugo.

I think Lopez might be, but isn't his insurance more valuable to the Cards (who are contending) than to the O's (who are not)?

Whether or not he's better than Lugo, why are we assuming availability? Or are we talking about the offseason?

[DrungoHazewood]

You still haven't shown how they're better than Lugo.

Not even close. Lugo has at least a league-average OBP, a passable glove at SS, pretty good glove at second, and can also pinch run. The other guys have question marks at least as big as Lugo.

Given this list of four players as candidates for your utility job, nobody is going to pick out Lugo and say your GM is an idiot for signing him. Most folks would probably say "throw all four names in a hat, and pick one out, because there ain't a win's difference between them."

[mefogus]

How are any of those guys better options than Lugo?

I think you answered that question... they do not play for the Orioles.

:f

[JTrea81]

Also, I'd like to see an analysis of the hypothetical transaction and how it wasn't going to cost so much talent and resources that it negatively impacted the future of the team. The Orioles aren't going to win by giving up $100M and Tillman and Britton in exchange for one guy.

Miguel Cabrera is a 6-7 WAR player.

Know anybody else that was available like that can give your team that boost?

I doubt the players that we would give up would match what he could do over the next 6 years.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think Lopez might be, but isn't his insurance more valuable to the Cards (who are contending) than to the O's (who are not)?

Whether or not he's better than Lugo, why are we assuming availability? Or are we talking about the offseason?

I believe the assumption is that MacPhail should have had another good major league second baseman signed the minute there was a hint that Roberts might be hurt.

[H0smash]

miguel cabrera is a 6-7 war player.

Know anybody else that was available like that can give your team that boost?

I doubt the players that we would give up would match what he could do over the next 6 years.

he was not available!

[waroriole]

I think Lopez might be, but isn't his insurance more valuable to the Cards (who are contending) than to the O's (who are not)?

Whether or not he's better than Lugo, why are we assuming availability? Or are we talking about the offseason?

Yeah, Lopez might be. However, Trea just throws up any number that looks good to fit his argument. Lopez has a .738 OPS lifetime and is pretty poor defensively, especially at SS. He was very good last year, but as you said was he available to us, and also look at the intangibles. He's talked about as a slacker and not someone you want in your clubhouse (not that Lugo is a model citizen), and that has to factor in as well.

[JTrea81]

Not even close. Lugo has at least a league-average OBP, a passable glove at SS, pretty good glove at second, and can also pinch run. The other guys have question marks at least as big as Lugo.

Given this list of four players as candidates for your utility job, nobody is going to pick out Lugo and say your GM is an idiot for signing him. Most folks would probably say "throw all four names in a hat, and pick one out, because there ain't a win's difference between them."

Lugo is a horrible defender, with horrible being a kind word. He's worse than Tejada at SS and even worse than that at 2B. Obviously you don't pay attention to UZR.

Now we traded little to get him, but we get little in return.

I can't believe you are trying to say that Lugo was a good addition.

[DrungoHazewood]

Miguel Cabrera is a 6-7 WAR player.

Know anybody else that was available like that can give your team that boost?

I doubt the players that we would give up would match what he could do over the next 6 years.

Again, if the O's trade multiple young players for expensive veteran talent and have to pay market rates for their salaries we can just give up and go home now.

If guys like (Tillman plus Britton) and the cash necessary to pay a Cabrera don't net the O's 6-7 wins a year they're toast.

[waroriole]

Miguel Cabrera is a 6-7 WAR player.

Know anybody else that was available like that can give your team that boost?

I doubt the players that we would give up would match what he could do over the next 6 years.

Are you going to show us were he was available? Also, what we would have to give up, and whether it would be worth it for an alcoholic who wouldn't be a sure thing to give you any production?

[waroriole]

Miguel Cabrera is a 6-7 WAR player.

Know anybody else that was available like that can give your team that boost?

I doubt the players that we would give up would match what he could do over the next 6 years.

Are you going to show us where he was available? Also, what we would have to give up, and whether it would be worth it for an alcoholic who wouldn't be a sure thing to give you any production?

[Lucky Jim]

Lugo is a horrible defender, with horrible being a kind word. He's worse than Tejada at SS and even worse than that at 2B. Obviously you don't pay attention to UZR.

Now we traded little to get him, but we get little in return.

I can't believe you are trying to say that Lugo was a good addition.

Tell us how you interpret his UZR. Last we chatted about it, you thought that 70 games was an adequate sample size. I trust you've read up on it since?