That's it... time to send Adam to Norfolk

[LookinUp]

I don't think "coaches make no difference whatsoever" but I don't think they make this much difference.

I'm all for canning the entire staff, although I'm not sure I've ever seen that done midseason, but I don't think the players are struggling because of poor coaching. It may not be helping them get out of the slumps as well as it should be, and that alone is a fireable offense, but I have no expectation that a new coaching staff would help these guys start hitting particularly more quickly than the current one.

Mackus, you're one of the best posters on this board and I respect your opinion, but I really think you're reflecting a sort of insider's conventional wisdom here.

When Jim Palmer said "he couldn't have been looking for that" last night after Jones swung at the 2-0 curveball, it was yet another indication that these guys - collectively - have a terrible mental approach at the plate. Of all people, Jones should be sitting dead red at that point, and he should drop the bat if he doesn't get it. He should get that type of feedback after every at bat, it should be drilled into his psyche by now. But somehow it's not. Do I think he's stupid or uncoachable? No. While the coaches obviously aren't telling him to swing at that pitch, I'm not sure they're telling him to only swing at X in Y count. In many respects, this also helps explain the lack of power from so many hitters.

Corey Patterson was late on a 2-0 91 mph fastball that caught a lot of plate. How is that possible? You can't tell me it's mechanics, as most minor leaguers looking for a 2-0 fastball can catch up to a 91 mph offering. It's mental approach.

[Sports Guy]

Who's to say they were still doing what got them to Baltimore in 2009, and then Crowley tinkered with them and made them into what they are now?

Or that the league adjusted and Crow hasn't figured out how to adjust back?

Its kind of like when they face a soft tosser with control. The game plan and in game adjustments are awful.

And of course, that's not all Crow's fault...Crow is only a minimal factor in all likelihood(unless there are bigger issues that we don't know about) but I don't feel he is a solution to the problems at hand and his message could definitely have run its course.

[VAB2110]

Who's to say they were still doing what got them to Baltimore in 2009, and then Crowley tinkered with them and made them into what they are now?

Fair point. So let's take a look at the list of hitters the Orioles got rid during Crowley's tenure who were so much better after leaving Baltimore. I think we'll be able to do that very quickly if you know what I mean.

[NewMarketSean]

Fair point. So let's take a look at the list of hitters the Orioles got rid during Crowley's tenure who were so much better after leaving Baltimore. I think we'll be able to do that very quickly if you know what I mean.

LOL, most of the hitters who left the Orioles were out of baseball within a year. That in and of itself has been a major issue of why our offense continually sucks every year.

The only player I can think of that's had enough of a career elsewhere to compare it to their time here is Gary Matthews. He improved once he got to Texas (Surprise! Rudy Jaramillo!), but then flopped as soon as he left Texas.

[LookinUp]

Fair point. So let's take a look at the list of hitters the Orioles got rid during Crowley's tenure who were so much better after leaving Baltimore. I think we'll be able to do that very quickly if you know what I mean.

Why? It matters more that he's not a solution. I've yet to hear anyone articulate a downside risk to removing Crowley.

[El Gordo]

Actually, to me, this is a compelling case that the hitting coach isn't doing his job.

Literally every young hitter on this team is underachieving. Is it a coincidence that all of them have been in a slump for the entire season? Sure, it could be. Or it could be indicative that they're not on the same page with their hitting coach, and that he's not exactly doing a great job at helping hitters correct their flaws. For one reason or another, young Orioles are not progressing the way they should and not living up to their talents. Certainly, the bulk of that responsibility falls on the players themselves. But isn't it also a coach's job to help get the most out of the players? I don't see how Crowley has done that in any way, shape, or form.

How could you? You aren't in the clubhouse or in the tunnel with Crowley while he's working with them. You don't know what he is doing or not doing. You aren't in a position to make an informed decision. But others are. If Crowley truly wasn't doing his job, we would have had hints of it by now. Players would have been giving indications that he wasn't helping them. AM and DT would be well aware that Crow wasn't working with them the right way. I think Crow goes when the manager goes and the new one brings in his own guys.

[El Gordo]

Why? It matters more that he's not a solution. I've yet to hear anyone articulate a downside risk to removing Crowley.

Simple. Some one like Eddie Murray e.g. would be a disaster. He's been fired twice for his inability to communicate with young players. There are a number of poor fits for this club that would be worse. Now if you can get Rudy Jaramillo, fine.

[NewMarketSean]

Simple. Some one like Eddie Murray e.g. would be a disaster. He's been fired twice for his inability to communicate with young players. There are a number of poor fits for this club that would be worse. Now if you can get Rudy Jaramillo, fine.

Obviously we would expect the O's to hire someone who would fit in with the age and demographics of this club. We're not saying hire any one. Just someone who has a good chance to be better than Crowley.

[Sports Guy]

Simple. Some one like Eddie Murray e.g. would be a disaster. He's been fired twice for his inability to communicate with young players. There are a number of poor fits for this club that would be worse. Now if you can get Rudy Jaramillo, fine.

Any proof of this? I remember hearing that the young players in Clev liked him.

[Three Run Homer]

Jones and Wieters have both been terrible this year. No power, no approach, no clue of what they are doing at the plate. It's by far the worst thing that's happened to this franchise this season, much worse than starting 2-16.

This team literally has no chance of competing, let alone contending in the next five years unless both Jones and Wieters become above average hitters (with at least one of them becoming a genuine impact bat). Getting those two guys on track has to be the franchise's number one priority.

Crowley may be working his butt off with both of them, but whatever he's saying to them, it's not working. And you can't just blame Adam for being conceited...nobody has ever said anything bad about Wieters' work ethic or willingness to work with his coaches, and he's just as hopeless at the plate right now as AJ.

I don't care a whole lot about when or whether Dave Trembley is fired. But we need a new hitting coach here yesterday.

[Three Run Homer]

Any proof of this? I remember hearing that the young players in Clev liked him.

My recollection is that Eddie was fired in Cleveland because the entire team got off to an absolutely terrible start at the plate one year...and they started to hit once he left town. He's not the guy I would want to hire.

[LookinUp]

Simple. Some one like Eddie Murray e.g. would be a disaster. He's been fired twice for his inability to communicate with young players. There are a number of poor fits for this club that would be worse. Now if you can get Rudy Jaramillo, fine.

I'm not sure how a disaster of a hitting coach would be worse than what's going on now though.

I'm not saying Crow himself is a disaster. I am saying that our results are. I'm also assuming that AM would perform the necessary due diligence to not hire a disaster of a hitting coach either way.

[Dr. FLK]

I don't think "coaches make no difference whatsoever" but I don't think they make this much difference.

I'm all for canning the entire staff, although I'm not sure I've ever seen that done midseason, but I don't think the players are struggling because of poor coaching. It may not be helping them get out of the slumps as well as it should be, and that alone is a fireable offense, but I have no expectation that a new coaching staff would help these guys start hitting particularly more quickly than the current one.

Wouldn't it kind of stink to lose Kranitz because our hitters can't hit?

[JackO]

This place has officially lost its collective mind.

From Melewski:

http://masnsports.com/steve_melewski/2010/05/stats-facts-and-notes-from-wednesdays-loss-at-texas.html

The results and the batting stats (line drive rate) clearly show that he is hitting A LOT better. I can post the line drive stats from fangraphs again since nobody seems to want to pay attention to them. Yeh, he is hitting terribly and should be sent down.

Meanwhile:

The golden child hasn't squared up a ball in a long time yet there is nothing about him. I'm not sure why Adam has become such a target for nastiness, but the one sidedness of the comments here are crazy. Wieters hasn't been any better than Jones this year, not by a long shot. Reimold has been worse. Atkins has been worse.

Oh yeah Reimold, the guy who shouldn't have been sent down, is hitting .091 in AAA.

This place is ridiculous right now. Of course Jones is still having some bad at bats. He is a free swinger. It sucks, but he is who we thought he was. Miggy has been having these types of at bats for years. Such is life with free swingers.

Some of you guys REALLY need to take a look in the mirror. The desire to vent and to be right is really coloring the observations being made by a LOT of people.

I think COLORING is the right term. How is Adam Jones different from Matt Weiters and Nolan Riemold? I was only a kid when Eddie Murray left town, but I seem to recall that part of the reason he was unhappy here was that fans seemed to have the same problem with him that I sense they have with Adam Jones.

Though I wish he would stop making bad swings.

[Sports Guy]

My recollection is that Eddie was fired in Cleveland because the entire team got off to an absolutely terrible start at the plate one year...and they started to hit once he left town. He's not the guy I would want to hire.

I am not saying they should hire him...Just saying that I know I heard the young players liked Eddie but maybe that changed quickly?