The flaw to "grow the arms."

[foxfield]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? All kidding aside, I agree, this would be the worst time to give up on the plan. Yeah it sucks right now, but I hope AM guts it out. I hope he doesn't get pressured into some rash and, in the long term, bad decisions by this year's performance. He's overall approach is correct. There may need to be some tweaking, but the approach is sound.

I KNEW it was the Germans!!!

[JTrea81]

Jones, Pie, Reimold, Wieters, Markakis are 5 guys under 30 who are expected to be part of the future. Pie is hurt and Reimold is temporarily a mental mess. Our rotation is still in the process of being formed. The chances of 4/5 of the rotation being 25 or less next year is pretty strong, with Bergesen, Matusz, Tillman, and maybe Arrieta or Britton. It's a work in progress. When the tough gets going, GIVE UP THE PLAN!!

So what does the plan guarantee us and how long are you willing to keep losing to continue to follow it?

We will be at 13 straight losing seasons after this one. Are you willing to go to 15 straight to have the plan be carried out? And I'm not talking playoffs here, I'm talking above .500. Playoffs is a whole other story...

[SteveA]

So what does the plan guarantee us and how long are you willing to keep losing to continue to follow it?

We will be at 13 straight losing seasons after this one. Are you willing to go to 15 straight to have the plan be carried out? And I'm not talking playoffs here, I'm talking above .500. Playoffs is a whole other story...

The plan guarantees us nothing.

Now what does YOUR plan GUARANTEE us?

This season has been a significant set back for the team, and the "plan", so far. But I don't think firing MacPhail will get us any closer to righting the ship. And elsewhere in this thread I am concerned about the direction of the team, and concerned that we still are not as close as I had hoped we would be to an actual winning season. But I don't believe firing MacPhail now, and hiring (who? I don't think any of your 200 posts on the subject have mentioned the successor you want, please forgive me if I am wrong about that)... I don't think that will get us any closer.

[BrunoCherrytown]

Because they actually have had a decent organization for just about always. While the Orioles totally sucked for the last 20 years, even when they were making the playoffs in the late 90's. The farm system was empty. Toronto built their organization on their farm system. Halladay was a pretty nice player to have all those years. Lind, Wells, Hill, Cecil, Romero, Snyder, Rios, all drafted by them. Sure, Jordan started drafting in 2005, but it takes awhile to get all cylinders clicking. Short answer. The Orioles are still just getting up to speed in player development while Toronto was already there for years.

Took that new Toronto GM about 5 minutes to leapfrog MacPhail's entire career of international signings.

[foxfield]

So what does the plan guarantee us and how long are you willing to keep losing to continue to follow it?

We will be at 13 straight losing seasons after this one. Are you willing to go to 15 straight to have the plan be carried out? And I'm not talking playoffs here, I'm talking above .500. Playoffs is a whole other story...

Playoffs!!! Your talkin PLAYOFFS????

Seriously Trea. We know you want everyone fired because Am in 2.5 years has not done enough. Many have tried to actually discuss ideas, but you seem to know what you are against. So let me ask this way. What are you for?

Angelos fires AM today and announces you as his new GM. In the contract is this demand. You have 2.5 years to make us winners (.500) and after 2.5 years you will be fired immediately upon failure, which is defined as finishing below .500.

You can grow bats or arms or fleas, you are in control of all baseball operations. Would you be so kind as to lay out in as much detail as you care to share with us, what you would do over the next 2.5 years?

[JTrea81]

The plan guarantees us nothing.

Now what does YOUR plan GUARANTEE us?

This season has been a significant set back for the team, and the "plan", so far. But I don't think firing MacPhail will get us any closer to righting the ship.

Firing MacPhail could get somebody to spend more resources appropriately and not just rule out certain avenues because of risk.

Remember Duquette and Flanagan were able to spend money. They may not have spent wisely, but they still had the freedom to spend.

MacPhail doesn't want to spend, period. Not even in the scouting and development where the small market teams are spending their resources.

[Hank Scorpio]

So what does the plan guarantee us and how long are you willing to keep losing to continue to follow it?

We will be at 13 straight losing seasons after this one. Are you willing to go to 15 straight to have the plan be carried out? And I'm not talking playoffs here, I'm talking above .500. Playoffs is a whole other story...

I haven't been here for a few days, thank God.

Please knock off this "guarantee" crap. Every single time you indicate that you expect any kind of guarantee, you sound bat **** crazy.

There are zero guarantees.

Zero.

[JTrea81]

Playoffs!!! Your talkin PLAYOFFS????

Seriously Trea. We know you want everyone fired because Am in 2.5 years has not done enough. Many have tried to actually discuss ideas, but you seem to know what you are against. So let me ask this way. What are you for?

Angelos fires AM today and announces you as his new GM. In the contract is this demand. You have 2.5 years to make us winners (.500) and after 2.5 years you will be fired immediately upon failure, which is defined as finishing below .500.

You can grow bats or arms or fleas, you are in control of all baseball operations. Would you be so kind as to lay out in as much detail as you care to share with us, what you would do over the next 2.5 years?

Well right now, I fire Trembley and Terry Crowley. That's step one. I replace Trembley internally and look for a manager after the season. I look externally for a hitting coach like Merv Rettemund.

Next I draft Zack Cox in the first round of the draft and look to acquire as much overslot talent as I can. I tell Jordan his draft budget is pretty much unlimited and to pick position players if the pitcher and the position player are equal.

In the meantime, I tell Stockstill by July 2nd he'd better be ready to make offers to amateur international talent. And that we want to be extremely competitive and aggressive with the other teams in our division landing that talent.

Next I go after a big trade at the deadline to add talent, and not subtract it. Of course I'm open to listening for all my guys, but I'm not trading any veterans that are helping me win games unless I get overwhelmed. Instead I am looking to trade my young pitching and see if anybody would be interested in some of my younger positional talent that won't fit my organizational plan or will be blocked, like Snyder, Bell and Joseph to get a major offensive force like Prince Fielder.

I try to make a major splash to show my players and my fans that I want to win games in the second half and beyond. It would be unprecidented for a losing team to add, but it is that critical to show my core players that I believe in them and I am going to give them the support they need to win games. 2010 needs to be a season to build on, not one to forget.

After the season, I look to hire a veteran manager who has a track record of winning. LaRussa, Hargrove, Melvin, Garner could all be choices, and I allow them to bring in their own staff.

In the offseason, I start building up my scouting both internationally and domestic and try to lure scouts away from other successful organizations.

I make it a goal for the Orioles to have more scouts than the Rays or Jays.

Ditto for the coaching staff. Again I look externally to other winning organizations and try to lure them away like we did with Mike Griffin. And I clean house in the minor leagues and install these new coaches.

Getting back to that organizational plan, I look to install an approach on hitting and pitching and to acquire that type of talent to fit my system. I want guys that are patient but also have power, and LH power to match OPACY would be preferred and I look for strike throwers and GB pitchers that also fit my ballpark. There's no point in getting talent that has a disadvantage when it plays at OPACY or in the AL East.

Now back to the offseason again. I've identified the targets I am looking for in free agency. And I am extremely aggressive in going after those targets. On the first day I can, I make competitive offers to the FA targets. I don't wait for the market, I set the market.

[wingman123]

Well right now, I fire Trembley and Terry Crowley. That's step one. I replace Trembley internally and look for a manager after the season. I look externally for a hitting coach like Merv Rettemund.

Next I draft Zack Cox in the first round of the draft and look to acquire as much overslot talent as I can. I tell Jordan his draft budget is pretty much unlimited and to pick position players if the pitcher and the position player are equal.

In the meantime, I tell Stockstill by July 2nd he'd better be ready to make offers to amateur international talent. And that we want to be extremely competitive and aggressive with the other teams in our division landing that talent.

Next I go after a big trade at the deadline to add talent, and not subtract it. Of course I'm open to listening for all my guys, but I'm not trading any veterans that are helping me win games unless I get overwhelmed. Instead I am looking to trade my young pitching and see if anybody would be interested in some of my younger positional talent that won't fit my organizational plan or will be blocked, like Snyder, Bell and Joseph to get a major offensive force like Prince Fielder.

I try to make a major splash to show my players and my fans that I want to win games in the second half and beyond. It would be unprecidented for a losing team to add, but it is that critical to show my core players that I believe in them and I am going to give them the support they need to win games. 2010 needs to be a season to build on, not one to forget.

After the season, I look to hire a veteran manager who has a track record of winning. LaRussa, Hargrove, Melvin, Garner could all be choices, and I allow them to bring in their own staff.

In the offseason, I start building up my scouting both internationally and domestic and try to lure scouts away from other successful organizations.

I make it a goal for the Orioles to have more scouts than the Rays or Jays.

Ditto for the coaching staff. Again I look externally to other winning organizations and try to lure them away like we did with Mike Griffin. And I clean house in the minor leagues and install these new coaches.

Getting back to that organizational plan, I look to install an approach on hitting and pitching and to acquire that type of talent to fit my system. I want guys that are patient but also have power, and LH power to match OPACY would be preferred and I look for strike throwers and GB pitchers that also fit my ballpark. There's no point in getting talent that has a disadvantage when it plays at OPACY or in the AL East.

Now back to the offseason again. I've identified the targets I am looking for in free agency. And I am extremely aggressive in going after those targets. On the first day I can, I make competitive offers to the FA targets. I don't wait for the market, I set the market.

I'm guessing that the team payroll would be around 150 million if we followed this plan you are talking about.:scratchchinhmm:

[SrMeowMeow]

1) Standings

2) Development/coaching

3) Structure

4) International

5) Scouting

I thought everyone on the board agreed - the Jays being ahead of us in the standings in no way reflects them actually being a better team right now. You just said they have worse talent than we do. As for the rest, give examples please. I'd love to see some objective evidence that we are "worse at scouting" than the Blue Jays.

EDIT: Forget it, I don't care. I know what you're going to say and it's not interesting.

[Sports Guy]

I thought everyone on the board agreed - the Jays being ahead of us in the standings in no way reflects them actually being a better team right now. You just said they have worse talent than we do. As for the rest, give examples please. I'd love to see some objective evidence that we are "worse at scouting" than the Blue Jays.

EDIT: Forget it, I don't care. I know what you're going to say and it's not interesting.

LOL....Make sure you don't eat the sand your head is buried in. Its not healthy.

BTW, more talent doesn't mean better team.

[BrunoCherrytown]

I'm not happy with our lack of splash in international signings. However, let's actually wait a few years before we are sure that the Toronto guy has done so much better. No doubt we are still catching up to other teams in this area but I doubt AM should take all the blame on that one.

We don't have to wait anymore than 5 seconds really.

Toronto GM signed highly regarded international prospects-we didn't. He did better.

We are playing catch up to every team. I'm wrong there actually. You have to begin to try first. He's been too scared so far during his whole career.

Hopefully he has more guts this year come July 2nd.

[Sports Guy]

Yeah, I guess it's that simple. I should have known better.

And what if AM had made those signings...What would you be saying then?

[Stotle]

I'd be saying that I'm glad the O's are making the effort and I hope they work out. It's no secret the O's have been getting beat for talent down there for a long time. I'm not a MacPhail apologist. I feel like one because of so many flippant comments from so many who think things are black and white. The Orioles signed a lot of players from Latin America this year. They have two full teams in the Dominican Summer League for the first time ever. Is that enough? No, but progress has been made under MacPhail. A high profile signing would be nice. Just because the Toronto GM signed some high profile guys doesn't make him some genius.

I'm as critical as anyone about BAL's international efforts, but this seems like a reasonable stance to have. I do think TOR has a great approach (we kill you with scouting), and I applaud an under-asseted team for working to create an edge for themselves.

[Bradysburns]

I kind of feel like we are destined to be like the Giants...which may or may not be a good thing...What do you do with Matusz, Tillman, Pomeranz/Taillon, Arrieta, Hobgood, Bergesen, Hernandez, Britton, etc. if you don't plan on trading any of them?

Simple, you keep them in your system somewhere, for as long as possible. We don't even know if any of these guys will stick in the majors yet... and five of the guys you mentioned haven't even cracked the MLB lineup.

Until a guy is tearing up triple A consistently, for at least a half-season... I just don't think of him as an "available" talent, in terms of the MLB team. So... just keep 'em around until you know what you have... Or until you're bowled over by a trade offer.