The flaw to "grow the arms."

[Sports Guy]

I'd be saying that I'm glad the O's are making the effort and I hope they work out. It's no secret the O's have been getting beat for talent down there for a long time. I'm not a MacPhail apologist. I feel like one because of so many flippant comments from so many who think things are black and white. The Orioles signed a lot of players from Latin America this year. They have two full teams in the Dominican Summer League for the first time ever. Is that enough? No, but progress has been made under MacPhail. A high profile signing would be nice. Just because the Toronto GM signed some high profile guys doesn't make him some genius.

Maybe not..but he still did it.

And if AM had done it, you and many others would be applauding him.

So, just because someone mentions that Toronto did it, doesn't mean you need to get all pissy about it.

[JTrea81]

Please tell me on what day/time Andy said he would ALWAYS take a pitcher in the first round. Alternatively, point me to the thread where it was discussed, because I'm SURE that would have been discussed ad nauseum. I remember him saying something much, much more conditional than what you've written. I think he said that if the choices we were looking at were evenly evaluated, he would take the pitcher over the hitter. If that is what you're remembering, this isn't remotely the same statement you just made.

Did you listen to the same interview on Inside Pitch with Jim Bowden and Casey Stern on Thursday afternoon?

The interview was discussed here.

[SrMeowMeow]

Did you listen to the same interview on Inside Pitch with Jim Bowden and Casey Stern on Thursday afternoon?

The interview was discussed here.

Wow. This is your paraphrase:

When asked about the draft he also said that he felt pitching was the most important to draft because it's too expensive to acquire by other means and although he'd support whoever Jordan thought had the best chance a long term career. He said eventually you need to get hitters and you can get lucky with pitching in later rounds, but pitching is the best thing to draft early because of the fact it is expensive and fragile on the FA market.

Did you not read it?

[JTrea81]

Wow. This is your paraphrase:

Did you not read it?

Yeah I read it. I paraphrased that he said pitching was the best thing to take early but I also remember him saying the first round had the best pitching talent. He clearly made his preference for drafting pitching over hitting in the first round.

I'm not intentionally twisting words. I can't remember the exact phrasing, but it was pretty obvious to me and to Bowden and Stern that pitching first is his mantra. Bowden said after that interview he knew the Orioles were taking Taillon with the 3rd pick because Andy wanted a pitcher.

But in each case, I made sure to say that he'd defer to Jordan to select the player he thought would have the best career in an Orioles uniform. And to his credit, MacPhail did say this.

So supposedly in the draft it doesn't matter what MacPhail thinks...

[SrMeowMeow]

Yeah I read it. I paraphrased that he said pitching was the best thing to take early but I also remember him saying the first round had the best pitching talent. He clearly made his preference for drafting pitching over hitting in the first round.

I'm not intentionally twisting words. I can't remember the exact phrasing, but it was pretty obvious to me and to Bowden and Stern that pitching first is his mantra. Bowden said after that interview he knew the Orioles were taking Taillon with the 3rd pick because Andy wanted a pitcher.

But in each case, I made sure to say that he'd defer to Jordan to select the player he thought would have the best career in an Orioles uniform. And to his credit, MacPhail did say this.

So supposedly in the draft it doesn't matter what MacPhail thinks...

It's just, you said that MacPhail said he always wants to take a pitcher with his first pick. Then VaTech said that he remembered MacPhail saying something more conditional. Then you backed up your original statement with a quote where MacPhail says a more conditional version of what you said.

[JTrea81]

It's just, you said that MacPhail said he always wants to take a pitcher with his first pick. Then VaTech said that he remembered MacPhail saying something more conditional. Then you backed up your original statement with a quote where MacPhail says a more conditional version of what you said.

Which is why I want to know if vatech actually listened to the interview.

MacPhail's bias toward pitching in the first round was very clear to me after I heard that.

And besides, I said "he'd always want to take", not that "he'd always take." There is a difference there. So who is twisting who's words there?

He'd always look to take pitching in the first round, but would defer to Jordan's choice. That's probably the best way to paraphrase it accurately.

[Going Underground]

Cou;d MacPhail be going after pitchers more in the first round,because of his bad drafts for position players with the Cubs? he could be thinking better to take a young arm with potential and wait for a bat in the later rounds.

[Avsfan]

Trea seems to think Zack Cox is some super elite prospect, when he really isn't.

[BrunoCherrytown]

I'd be saying that I'm glad the O's are making the effort and I hope they work out. It's no secret the O's have been getting beat for talent down there for a long time. I'm not a MacPhail apologist. I feel like one because of so many flippant comments from so many who think things are black and white. The Orioles signed a lot of players from Latin America this year. They have two full teams in the Dominican Summer League for the first time ever. Is that enough? No, but progress has been made under MacPhail. A high profile signing would be nice. Just because the Toronto GM signed some high profile guys doesn't make him some genius.

We signed a 6'10 pitcher from Australia who had an ERA over 6.00 in Australia as one of our international signings the Blue Jays signed a SS prospect from Cuba who's already hitting almost .300 in their minor leagues.

The Blue Jays signed plenty of scrubs like we did internationally. Every team signs those guys. We signed 32 Guatemalan Adam Eatons and nobody else, because real prospects cost real money. And MacPhail doesn't like to spend real money.

[ledzepp8]

Yeah I read it. I paraphrased that he said pitching was the best thing to take early but I also remember him saying the first round had the best pitching talent. He clearly made his preference for drafting pitching over hitting in the first round.

So supposedly in the draft it doesn't matter what MacPhail thinks...

Well then you should hopefully realize that this, Now Andy has said the best pitching is found in the earlier rounds, which is why he wants to take a pitcher in the first round in every draft., is not the same thing as what you said he said previously. You're misrepresenting the man, again.

MacPhail saying, all things equal, that he would prefer to take the pitcher in the higher round but that he'll defer to Joe Jordan is not even remotely close to saying that "he always wants to choose a pitcher in the first round".

I personally thinks it's funny that you even admit that you think Joe Jordan has final say in the draft and as you so eloquently put it, "So supposedly in the draft it doesn't matter what MacPhail thinks". Yet you also have no problem running with this, "AM only wants to draft a pitcher in the first round every time" myth.

[Sports Guy]

Let me know where I can sign up for the SportsGuy charm school.

Its not in New Jersey, I think you have established that for us.

[Sports Guy]

Wouldn't you be one of the many others?

Yep...But I also am not the one trying to get all upset because someone else is praising what other teams are doing.

[Hank Scorpio]

These are your exact words from the thread YOU started about this interview:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97608&highlight=macphail

These are your exact words from the 1st post in this thread:

These aren't the same things, are they? Did you just change your mind or what? Your own words paraphrasing AM aren't nearly as strong as what you wrote in this thread. You wrote that AM said he would ALWAYS want to draft a pitcher in the first round. Your summary above doesn't say a thing about the first round or a thing about ALWAYS. In other words, it is much more conditional. He is talking draft approach. He isn't talking absolutes. He is dead on BTW.

See, only you talk about the the draft (and most other things) in absolutes. The rest of us realize that situations are much more transient and need to be evaluated as such. Most of us use basic tenets to guide our decisions, but we adjust based on the state of things at the time of the decision.

I'll go back and listen the interview. In the meantime, how about you respond to the well reasoned criticism of your arguments found in this thread

RZNJ asks a great question about our young hitters in response to JTrea's assertion about timeline for contribution:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2156678&postcount=20

MP asks a couple interesting clarifying hypothetical questions:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2156679&postcount=21

Stotle asks a great question about the supposed "drop off" line:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2156687&postcount=25

I do an in depth analysis of last year's ML leaders relative to draft position and find that it doesn't support your theories at all:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2156700&postcount=27

None of these posts are trolling. All of these posts are "talking baseball". They all ask valid questions about your position or attempt to analyze how your position fits with results. Maybe you missed them so I'm giving you a chance to go back now.

EDIT: I tried to find the Inside Pitch interview and can't. If anyone has it, please forward. Thanks

I'll assume Trea's been typing his response for 6 hours, now...

[JTrea81]

Kind of like Reimold and Jones did last year, right?

That would be ideal, but I see you are pointing out that there are no guarantees that they'd be able to keep up that contribution and you are correct. However, I would hope the Orioles would have a different coaching staff by then and will have made the other changes needed to make sure that happens.

[JTrea81]

Perhaps you're just talking about taking hitters with 1st round picks rather than pitchers as a general philosophy? I can understand that if you have players of equal talent. What if the O's have a choice between a hitter and a pitcher in the first round but the pitcher has a significantly higher ceiling? Would you still take the hitter?

The pitcher may have the higher ceiling, but to me it all depends on organziational need and the other pipelines you have to acquire positional talent. If the draft is bascially the only way you are going to be able to acquire premium positional talent, then you have to take that opportunity when it is there and draft the hitter.

And I will also point out our system hasn't had much luck with HS players in general, especially first round pitchers.

The advanced college hitter has the best chance of succeeding based on our organizational makeup right now so that's who I look to take until I can revamp my entire minor league structure including the coaching staff and the overall philosophy.