Just listened to Palmer on XM

[tvz1997]

Bingo, it probably didn't help that DT basically worked on successive one year contracts. DT has basically been a lame duck since he took the job. The next few weeks should be kinda interesting. Sounds like Samuel is a bit of a hardass. If nothing else it'll be interesting.

One year contracts for managers drive me nuts, especially when you are dealing with lower-paid managers. If there are players in the clubhouse who want to be skeptical as to whether or not a manager early in his career is running the show (and there always are those guys), making that manager go year-to-year is a sure way of embedding that skepticism in the fabric of the team.

Never let the manager enter the season without some job security and backup from the FO and take the hit on a year's salary if you have to part ways.

[Old#5fan]

Am I the only one that doesn't understand what this means? Can you elaborate for this blone bald guy?

It means that nobody was actually working hard but just going through the motions. How else would you interpret it?

[Moose Milligan]

Then why has Palmer been associated with the Orioles broadcasting team almost from the day he retired (which, coincidentally, is when they began to be very bad)?

Gotta pay the bills. But broadcasting for a team is very different than managing/coaching one...wouldn't you agree?

[Old#5fan]

That's your biggest gripe about the past 3 years? Have you watched any games?

Did you even read the sentence I wrote? :scratchchinhmm: I ask this because the first two words are "One thing". How the heck does that get translated into the "only thing" ?

[Moose Milligan]

Don't agree with this logic at all. To whit:

Many people who are "winners" have a driving need to try and fix things that are broken. This is how they became winners in the first place. The vast majority of sporting greats don't just pop out of the womb as "winners" complete with Cy Young awards and World Series rings.

They start out having to overcome a whole host of obstacles on their way to success. In most cases they will face great adversity (Lance Armstrong, John Elway, Michael Jordan) before they achieve ultimate success and achieve their ultimate goals.

Palmer had to work VERY hard to become a Hall of Fame pitcher and to earn those three rings. He didn't choose to become an Oriole because they had a winning culture and he wanted to play here - he got lucky in which team drafted and developed him. I think he would have still been a "winner" even if he'd been on a losing team - just because he's that kind of guy.

And its very clear that many players develop strong ties of loyalty to their "hometown" or original clubs - if they are the right kind of player. Some guys are only interested in money (ARod) or winning RIGHT NOW (Teix, Sabathia), but there are other guys who are really loyal to the city and organization that gave them their first chance (Lebron James assuming he stays in Cleveland).

Palmer seems like the kind of guy who fits in the last category. Of course it pains him greatly to see the O's struggle the way they have for over a decade, but to think he's unwilling to associate with the team because they are "losers" doesn't work for me.

I believe that Palmer wants the O's to reclaim their status as one of the best franchises in pro sports. I also believe that Palmer (who is one of the most intelligent people in sports broadcasting today) would love to play a role in helping the O's turn things around. As great as it is to be a winner on a winning team, its far, far more rewarding to take a losing team and turn it into a winner AND to be seen as one of the primary architects of that transformation.

To me, Palmer is the kind of guy who thrives on challenges. It won't surprise me in the least if the O's look at bringing him on board as a manager.

Good points, all valid, but perhaps I should clarify:

At this stage in his life, I doubt Palmer would be interested in taking on a challenge this large. IMO, he'd be more interested in calling some games and relaxing rather than the stress of taking on a task like this.

[hobbycars]

None of this is really shocking.

The inmates have been running the asylum for years in Baltimore. Hopefully Samuel, and whoever else replaces him in the long term, will be able to reign these guys in and get focused.

Yep-constant theme.

[El Gordo]

Am I the only one that doesn't understand what this means? Can you elaborate for this blone bald guy?

I didn't express the question properly. It was how does this club work, meaning work at their training, etc. The answer was, that the coach wasn't too impressed with how hard they went about things.

[Agent0]

Palmer should know....

...however, from the outside looking in, I don't think trembley was too nice a guy. I can think of times when he definitely didn't give Miggi, DCab, Pie, ALbers and others the benefit of the doubt. I simply think that he either a) didn't have the influence on guys that other veteran managers do or b) really couldn't hand out discipline because, due to limited talent, he pretty much had to play guys every day.

[EL_Coyote]

Since the thread is already completely derailed...

Would a "Hard Ass" really be an out of line approach? Players that do not perform do not get to play as often. Or get sweet contracts they all want.

Would Palmer really have had the career he had without Earl Weaver finding new ways to challenge him even if by simply letting him know he wasn't Captain Flawless? Or for that matter not that smart? To my knowledge Palmer still occasionally cashes checks from overzealous parents seeking to nurture their child's gift. Until he is willing to work everyday in some capacity as a professional coach he's just another voice guy. Nothing more. Let that notion go away.

The team is doing nothing but lose and has now become what every football fan thought of the old Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Why not create an environment of accountability? It's not as if the current approach is working. Heaven forbid Adam Jones have to stop chewing bubble gum. No that's right... Facial hair is not allowed, bubble gum is fine. Let's overpay Garrett Atkins to play a position he's never played after washing out of the position he has played. Let's leave Adam Jones in the lineup and protect him as he is a special talent that will one day... be... something? Let's play Matt Weiters everyday so his knees are blown out by the age of 26 so we can get Type-B compensation for him.

Sorry this probably belongs in the Rant section. I just think that perhaps The team should take a look at it's own dysfunction. Bring on a hard ass with a drinking problem and blow it up! If the team is going to stink do it the right way.

[LookinUp]

As I said in my other thread, a coach needs to set expectations and enforce them. The details matter. It doesn't surprise me at all that Palmer passes on this bit of information. Our talent is better than our production, even with the injuries.

[amateurfan]

Just a guess, but I'd bet most managers have a nice side, qualities that are considered nice. It'd be really rare for someone to be all hard.

When it's expressed in the media or here that a someone is too nice, I just take that to mean that the person in question does not have the proper complement of other qualities to nice to adequately do the job. There are plenty of different leadership styles that are effective, but there is such a thing as being too nice.

Also, why do so many people dismiss Palmer as though he's lying or has no idea what he's talking about?

[delinodeshields]

He spoke to a coach at ST and he asked what kind of club is this going to be and the coach said "if anybody worked hard it would stick out like a sore thumb."

I don't get it. Why is it that the only guys appearing to care are the more experienced ones, like Wiggy, Ohman, Millwood, and Guthrie? How can all these 25 and under guys be so careless? Even if Trembley was the worst manager in baseball history, guys like Jones, Wieters, Markakis, etc should still have pride and a desire to work hard.

We need a motivator, someone to get these guys to want to try.

[Old#5fan]

I don't get it. Why is it that the only guys appearing to care are the more experienced ones, like Wiggy, Ohman, Millwood, and Guthrie? How can all these 25 and under guys be so careless? Even if Trembley was the worst manager in baseball history, guys like Jones, Wieters, Markakis, etc should still have pride and a desire to work hard.

We need a motivator, someone to get these guys to want to try.

Maybe the younger guys are just more hard headed, lack the ability to do their own self motiviation and need a hard line manager? :confused:Who really knows?:scratchchinhmm: It would seem like MacPhail surely should find out though.

I think about how the Ravens had other employees such as equipment guys, and even maitenance people reporting to their own and to Ozzie their GM about what internal problems they were observing under Billick. Surely MacPhail is smart enough to put out his own internal "scouts" to find out what is really going on inside this clubhouse.

[Old#5fan]

First of all..I know Jim Palmer. He has ABSOLUTELY no interest in any aspect of running this team. Not managing, not coaching, not front office. He is happy doing his broadcasts and he loves his life.

He has spent hours upon hours talking to and mentoring dozens of players on the field before games and in the locker rooms after games.He has never charged a dime for his insights.

He knows talent. He also knows bad baseball which he is paid to comment on.

If there is a voice of reason left in this bad franchise it is Jim Palmer.Go criticize someone else if you want to.... Palmer is the LAST guy Im worried about. In fact if we lose him...I think we have lost the best bind in the organization.

I may not know Palmer personally, but my take is the same as yours Roy, just from listening to him during the MASN telecasts. You sir, are spot on!:clap3:

[Moose Milligan]

First of all..I know Jim Palmer. He has ABSOLUTELY no interest in any aspect of running this team. Not managing, not coaching, not front office. He is happy doing his broadcasts and he loves his life.

He has spent hours upon hours talking to and mentoring dozens of players on the field before games and in the locker rooms after games.He has never charged a dime for his insights.

He knows talent. He also knows bad baseball which he is paid to comment on.

If there is a voice of reason left in this bad franchise it is Jim Palmer.Go criticize someone else if you want to.... Palmer is the LAST guy Im worried about. In fact if we lose him...I think we have lost the best bind in the organization.

Well said, Roy.