When (If EVER) Will The Orioles Get a Hitter Like This?

[VTmook213]

Tony Batista used to drive in 90 runs per year as an Oriole. So what? That isn't anything exceptional. He also did it mainly with the homer which does't require people always being on base ahead of him, which is the predominant excuse why Markakis has so few rbi. Yet the fact he has a paltry 3 homers is conveniently overlooked.

Then why do you think Michael Young is so good? He's only broken triple digits once in the past 9 seasons. Markakis, in four seasons, has broken that barrier twice. So let's see, in less than half the time, Markakis has hit over 100 RBIs twice as many times as Young - and with a much worse team, too!

And it's not like Young's a great power hitter either, he's averaged 16 homeruns a season for his career. Markakis, as much as you like to disparage him for his lack of power, has averaged 19. That's right, more than Young.

For their careers, they've averaged the following over the course of a season:

Young: 87 RBIs

Markakis: 90 RBIs

Young: 16 HRs

Markakis: 19 HRs

Young: .303 AVG

Markakis: .297 AVG

Young: .350 OBP

Markakis: .369 OBP

Young: .451 SLG

Markakis: .466 SLG

Young: 106 OPS+

Markakis: 119 OPS+

In terms of WAR, Michael Young has been worth 24.4 over the course of his career - an average of 2.44. Markakis has been worth 16.0 WAR - an average of 3.2. In Young's best year, he was worth 4.2 WAR - the only time he's been above 4. In Markakis's best year, he was worth 6.3 WAR - his second best season, he was worth 4.2 ... the best of Young's career.

Their stats for Close and Late have already been posted, so I won't bother with those again, but Markakis wins there, too.

So by what objective measurement do you find Michael Young to be a better hitter? Because you saw him hit a homerun in an All-Star game? Because you have a vendetta against Markakis for some odd reason?

No, no, you were right when you said there's no point in discussing this since some people in this thread cannot see the logic.

[Frobby]

Tony Batista used to drive in 90 runs per year as an Oriole. So what? That isn't anything exceptional. He also did it mainly with the homer which does't require people always being on base ahead of him, which is the predominant excuse why Markakis has so few rbi. Yet the fact he has a paltry 3 homers is conveniently overlooked.

Michael Young has had 100 RBI exactly once, so what is your point? It is ridiculous how you change your arguments in order to suit your obvious anti-Markakis agenda.

There isn't anybody I know on this website who thinks Markakis is good enough to be the best hitter on a contending team. He's a good, consistent, well above-average hitter. He's not having a good HR year, that's obvious. Michael Young has had full seasons where he hit 9 HR (twice) or 14 HR (twice), so again, what is your point?

[Smokin' Joe O]

I don't mean to hitch my wagon to OF5 or anything, but isn't his point that Young and Markakis are essentially a wash and that we'd benefit greatly by Nick NOT being our best bat?

So, to get so in depth comparing the marginal differences between Young and Markakis seems pointless as the bottom line is that they are both good COMPLEMENTARY players, but neither is really capable of being "the man" on a team. I don't think anyone should really be disagreeing with that, right?

[VTmook213]

I don't mean to hitch my wagon to OF5 or anything' date=' [b']but isn't his point that Young and Markakis are essentially a wash [/b]and that we'd benefit greatly by Nick NOT being our best bat?

So, to get so in depth comparing the marginal differences between Young and Markakis seems pointless as the bottom line is that they are both good COMPLEMENTARY players, but neither is really capable of being "the man" on a team. I don't think anyone should really be disagreeing with that, right?

Nope:

Markakis is not an elite right fielder which is highly evident as he never beats out anyone for the All-star squad - not even his own teammates!! Young is an elite infielder and does beat out his competitiors and is a multiple All-star. If you cannot see the logic that Young is better there is no point of discussing. Young stands out among his peers, Markakis doesn't and that is a fact (at least at this point in his career unless something drastically changes).

Plus, the OP said, "When will the Orioles get a hitter like Vlad. Or even like Michael Young?"

[Sports Guy]

Michael Young has had 100 RBI exactly once, so what is your point? It is ridiculous how you change your arguments in order to suit your obvious anti-Markakis agenda.

There isn't anybody I know on this website who thinks Markakis is good enough to be the best hitter on a contending team. He's a good, consistent, well above-average hitter. He's not having a good HR year, that's obvious. Michael Young has had full seasons where he hit 9 HR (twice) or 14 HR (twice), so again, what is your point?

Exactly right...He always values RBIs and HRs.

The homers aren't there for Nick but I noticed the other day that his FB/HR% is only 4.2%...His career average is around 10%, which is usually around the league average.

If it was 10% for him this year, he would have 7-8 homers, which is right around where you would usually expect him to be at this point this year.

I am sure OldFan now believes you have to drive in 120 runs to be a good player...He will just continue to change his criteria.

Now, Young is a better player because he got a game winning hit in an AS game...I mean, are you kidding me?

Does that mean Crawford is the best defensive OFer in baseball just because he robbed a homer in last year's AS game?

[ShaneDawg85]

Exactly right...He always values RBIs and HRs.

The homers aren't there for Nick but I noticed the other day that his FB/HR% is only 4.2%...His career average is around 10%, which is usually around the league average.

If it was 10% for him this year, he would have 7-8 homers, which is right around where you would usually expect him to be at this point this year.

I am sure OldFan now believes you have to drive in 120 runs to be a good player...He will just continue to change his criteria.

Now, Young is a better player because he got a game winning hit in an AS game...I mean, are you kidding me?

Does that mean Crawford is the best defensive OFer in baseball just because he robbed a homer in last year's AS game?

Clearly Hank Blalock is the greatest 3rd baseman in the history of baseball. I mean, he hit a home run in an All Star game. Not only that, it was 2003, the year they first award home field advantage to the league that won! You can't get any more clutch than that!!!

[Smokin' Joe O]

Nope:

Plus, the OP said, "When will the Orioles get a hitter like Vlad. Or even like Michael Young?"

Ah, that's what I get for trying to help out...:laughlol:

[orioles119]

Clearly Hank Blalock is the greatest 3rd baseman in the history of baseball. I mean, he hit a home run in an All Star game. Not only that, it was 2003, the year they first award home field advantage to the league that won! You can't get any more clutch than that!!!

What kills Blalock in this argument is that really didn't help out the Yankees that year, did it!

[Moose Milligan]

At least El Trea has some semi decent logic for hating MacPhail. O5F is just off his rocker when it comes to his anti Markakis stance.

It's ridiculous.

[Dannyboy]

Markakis is not an elite right fielder which is highly evident as he never beats out anyone for the All-star squad - not even his own teammates!! Young is an elite infielder and does beat out his competitiors and is a multiple All-star. If you cannot see the logic that Young is better there is no point of discussing. Young stands out among his peers, Markakis doesn't and that is a fact (at least at this point in his career unless something drastically changes).

The only one here that is not seeing the logic is YOU!! Open your eyes sport, and look at the facts. But then again, that would also require you to open your mind, and I think thats something you're afraid of.

[PitchingWins]

Markakis is not an elite right fielder which is highly evident as he never beats out anyone for the All-star squad - not even his own teammates!! Young is an elite infielder and does beat out his competitiors and is a multiple All-star. If you cannot see the logic that Young is better there is no point of discussing. Young stands out among his peers, Markakis doesn't and that is a fact (at least at this point in his career unless something drastically changes).

I could be wrong, seriously, but I am pretty sure as far as ASG voting goes, it is selected by OF not RF, LF, CF. So that leaves 3 times the amount of players to chose from for the outfield.

[SrMeowMeow]

I certainly don't hate or even dislike him. I do hate the overating of him here which is absurdly wrong. He doesn't produce runs yet gets every excuse in the book here. Heck Jose Bautista is hitting 236 but has 18 homers and 42 rbi's. I would take him any day. This team needs someone to drive in runs and Markakis is more of a get on base type guy who needs a Vlad hitting behind him then we might have something. It really isn't his fault that MacPhail hasn't got a true big bat for this team.

And Jose Bautista is a bad hitter, and Markakis is a good hitter. Therefore, RBI are a bad way to judge how good a hitter is.

I mean, you are practically saying it yourself.

[SrMeowMeow]

I could be wrong, seriously, but I am pretty sure as far as ASG voting goes, it is selected by OF not RF, LF, CF. So that leaves 3 times the amount of players to chose from for the outfield.

Well, I mean, there are also 3 times as many starting slots available, so it doesn't matter.

[Sports Guy]

I could be wrong, seriously, but I am pretty sure as far as ASG voting goes, it is selected by OF not RF, LF, CF. So that leaves 3 times the amount of players to chose from for the outfield.

The funny thing is, there has been at least one year where Nick's numbers were FAR SUPERIOR to other OFers that made the AS game at the time of the game itself(ie, his numbers pre AS break). There were like 2 or 3 OFers that got in over him(and only one of those were voted in..ichiro) and all of them had numbers that paled in comparison to Nick's.

Its just how it goes.

And pointing out that Young has made an AS game is meaningless because Young's offense is so much better than most SS, that he gets in because of that.

But there is so much more depth and talent in the OF and since, as your point out, they don't do it by position in the OF, it really hurts him even more...its like the GG award...If they gave out GG for just RF, Nick would stand a better chance. But that's not how its done.

[Austin]

Heck Jose Bautista is hitting 236 but has 18 homers and 42 rbi's. I would take him any day. This team needs someone to drive in runs and Markakis is more of a get on base type guy who needs a Vlad hitting behind him then we might have something. It really isn't his fault that MacPhail hasn't got a true big bat for this team.

Are you saying you'd take Jose Bautista over Nick Markakis? I'm not trying to misconstrue your words, just looking for some clarification. A simple yes or no will suffice.