Jump to content

Tillman should have never been brought up


JTrea81

Recommended Posts

Count me in the group that has never been all that impressed with Tillman.

I would agree. The first time I watched Matusz or Arrieta pitch in the minors or majors, I could see it. They had "it" whether or not they had prolonged success or not. We will see with Arrieta.

With Tillman, I never saw it, aside from a good curve ball at times.

He is still very young, and the O's are going absolutely nowhere, so we might as well spend 40-50 more starts on the kid before we send him packing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 86
  • Created
  • Last Reply
I would agree. The first time I watched Matusz or Arrieta pitch in the minors or majors, I could see it. They had "it" whether or not they had prolonged success or not. We will see with Arrieta.

With Tillman, I never saw it, aside from a good curve ball at times.

He is still very young, and the O's are going absolutely nowhere, so we might as well spend 40-50 more starts on the kid before we send him packing.

I remember watching him pitch against Toronto last year and didn't have his 'A' stuff, but still put up a solid line. I was very impressed for a guy his age to be able to do that.

I don't know if we've seen his 'A' stuff at the major-league level yet, maybe he's trying to change something/pitch differently every time he's brought up. I don't know.

I hope, though, that he puts on some weight this offseason, at least 20 lbs., and develops that cutter (pay Mariano some money to teach you to throw it or become friends with Doc Halladay).

For the rest of the year, though, I think Tillman should get at least 4 or 5 more starts in the rotation, if he continues to struggle move him to the bullpen and let him work on his command of his fastball in the 7th or 8th inning. I think learning to get major league hitters out would go a long way for Tillman, and if he could learn to do that in the bullpen, maybe he could return to the rotation next year and pitch like we hoped he would.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am the only one who thinks Trea just wits back grinning when things like this happen just so he can start a thread like this.

I am so tired of him acting like he is the end all be all to everything Orioles related when HE DOESN'T EVEN WATCH THE GAMES.

Trea, How many times have you seen Tillman pitch?

Oh, and by the way who are we supposed to be trading him for? What team do you know of is willing to give up a future middle infielder for him? Because otherwise the constant pissing and moaning on a message board is a waste of time.

Unless you actually know something or see something, stop acting like you could run the Orioles better than McPhail, because in essence that is what all of your threads boil down to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never been one to support our pitching prospects continuing to throw batting practice at the major league level simply because there's supposedly nothing else for them to prove at AAA; however, given the way this season has been progressing, I don't really have a problem with it in this case. I say keep the guy up here and let him work through it. If he has an ERA this terrible at the end of the season, then we should re-evaluate his role.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He said it himself:

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100531&content_id=10643146&vkey=news_bal&fext=.jsp&c_id=bal

So he stopped focusing on fastball command, when that is something he should have kept focusing on as we can see he still needs a ton of work with that, for better results at the AAA level.

Where in the highlighted part does it say he stopped focusing on fastball command?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If he's throwing 91-94 and still getting hit because he leaves too many pitches up in the zone, then I can see an argument for letting him take his lumps up here to work on refining his command.

But if he's throwing 87-91, then something is seriously wrong with his health or mechanics. The issue to me isn't should he pitch at Norfolk or should he pitch in the majors...the issue to me is, right now, should he be pitching anywhere at all.

Kranitz had better be putting in long hours looking at tape on Tillman to try to figure out whether he had a mechanical flaw last night that led to his lower velocity. And they need a medical evaluation on Tillman as well to see if there's a physical issue.

I wouldn't send him out to pitch here or in Norfolk until I felt like there were some answers about what happened last night...or at least some informed hypotheses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm worried about Tillman. His fastball just looks so mediocre and I think the Phil Hughes comparison is a stretch.

Hughes' first year in the majors at age 21 he had a 4.46 ERA and struck out 7 batters per nine. In 2007 he was considered the number one pitching prospect in all of baseball by BA.

Tillman had a 5.40 ERA last year and has only struck out 5 batters per nine. In 2009 he was rated the 8th best pitching prospect in baseball by BA.

I don't think the stats are the best comp tool for young players transitioning. For whatever it's worth, I spoke to an evaluator here in the NYC area that said he likes Tillman more than he liked Hughes at the same age. Shrug.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If he's throwing 91-94 and still getting hit because he leaves too many pitches up in the zone, then I can see an argument for letting him take his lumps up here to work on refining his command.

But if he's throwing 87-91, then something is seriously wrong with his health or mechanics. The issue to me isn't should he pitch at Norfolk or should he pitch in the majors...the issue to me is, right now, should he be pitching anywhere at all.

Kranitz had better be putting in long hours looking at tape on Tillman to try to figure out whether he had a mechanical flaw last night that led to his lower velocity. And they need a medical evaluation on Tillman as well to see if there's a physical issue.

I wouldn't send him out to pitch here or in Norfolk until I felt like there were some answers about what happened last night...or at least some informed hypotheses.

It happened once last year too. Its likely just a bad night.

I won't completely rule out the possibility of a concern, but I am not very worried about him right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the stats are the best comp tool for young players transitioning. For whatever it's worth, I spoke to an evaluator here in the NYC area that said he likes Tillman more than he liked Hughes at the same age. Shrug.

Well that's certainly good to hear and I agree that projections from professional evaluators deserve as much credence as stats for this stage of a career, especially when the data set is under 100 innings.

Question for you and others who've seen Tillman in the minors, did his pure stuff look better there? Does he have the same stuff but he's just not locating it in the majors? Is he showing worse stuff and worse command at the majors than he showed in the minors?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Hughes AND Penn items are worth noting here...the fact is he is a prospect who had a terrible night. It could be just a bad night...it could be mechanical, injury or it could be that ultimately he wont be good enough. Either way, we are all becoming too synical if we want to say Tillman is a bust.

Personally, and it is only my opinion...let him take his lumps here and stay off him. Either let him pitch every 5 days or put him in the pen and let him throw from there...

Some of the outings last year from the Rays pitchers looked pretty weak too...seems like that worked out ok. Right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well that's certainly good to hear and I agree that projections from professional evaluators deserve as much credence as stats for this stage of a career, especially when the data set is under 100 innings.

Question for you and others who've seen Tillman in the minors, did his pure stuff look better there? Does he have the same stuff but he's just not locating it in the majors? Is he showing worse stuff and worse command at the majors than he showed in the minors?

Hat tip to VaTech (I believe) for banging the drum on the lack of effectiveness with his curve. That's a huge issue. Mostly, in my opinion, he's a typical young pitcher that needs refinement. He needs to work on his release. He needs to work on continuing to understand his mechanics and how they affect his effectiveness. Tinkering with grips, effort in pitches, etc. are all important. He can do that at AAA, but only if it's drummed home that the numbers don't matter. I would even consider doing something like telling him that a 2011 spot in the rotation is his to lose and that stats at AAA will not be taken into account. He can do that at the ML level as a starter (on this team) or in the pen if you make it a point to give him 5 IP a week (probably the best course of action, IMO).

But most importantly, give him some comfort that he isn't pitching for his future with each outing! Yo-yoing between AAA/ML is unfathomable. Basically, rewarding for AAA stats and punishing when he doesn't show that same effectiveness against a much better group of hitters. It's just a horrible way to handle young players. This organization really has its head up its own ass...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You've got to be kidding me. His hit's per 9 innings at Norfolk were not impressive. His strikeout rate at Norfolk was down. He's pitched 4 games up here and failed to get into the 3rd inning in two of them. Add to that the fact that his stuff looked awful last night, and you're not the least bit worried about him? Check your pulse, please! :)

I am not so worried about that because apparently the defense blows in AAA, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • Posts

    • I feel bad for Hays because in any other time except for right now he would be a valuable player for the Orioles. Hays is now what McKenna was the last few seasons for this team. I hope Hays can land on a new team where he will get the chance to play everyday.
    • Damn, these boys are entertaining. I watch every game, every night. I am so frustrated when they do almost nothing offensively until the last third of the game, and then they somehow find a way to throw a switch and make the game...theirs. I'm sure this pattern is not sustainable...the alchemy that turns coal into a diamond..and makes gold bricks out of fools gold.But in the last year and the start of this one, this team has to be one of the most beguiling teams in the game. EVERY player seems to be able to step up in any moment, and soon, when he gets his feet under him ,Jackson Holliday will too. It's just a matter of time. Like most , if not all of you, I've suffered  as a fan watching this team in rebuild, and almost dropped my MLBTV subscription because a few seasons ago they were unwatchable. But boy, this team is not only compelling, and heart stopping to watch...I literally cant wait for game time every day. Look, rooting for any sports team is like early romance. You are attracted by all the positives...but then, somehow, reality sets in and often the romance is filled with disappointment, and then disdain at being  "betrayed" by flaws and foible. I know I may sing a different tune and be filled with frustration and anger at a "underachieving " club eventually. It will happen. It's not me being fickle. It's me expecting perfection every night.Its unrealistic, I know. But for now, for this stretch...I have the budding romance and a love for these boys and their ability as any time since...well, since last year. THESE BOYS ARE FUN TO WATCH. ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
    • In the past we had very little talent. today we have too much. what a problem to have.
    • Does Jackson profile as a pull-heavy hitter or more of an all-fields guy? In my head he was more all-fields because of his high batting average potential, but his swing this week and in spring training looks more pull-focused to me. 
    • As far as Bradfield goes, I most certainly believe you! The kid has an 80 speed and defense scouting grade. Cowser has look very good in LF. I understand that there could be an offensive upgrade. But there will be a serious defensive downgrade IMO. Cedric Mullins is one of the few elite defensive CFs in baseball. Not only will be downgrading defensively to Cowser bu then we will be downgrading in LF from Cowser to Kjerstad. IMO that trade off is not worth it especially in an OF as big as Camden from left to center now.
    • I will admit, as a 60 year old, that I thought I had pretty much seen the only great Oriole teams I was gonna see. I thoroughly enjoyed 96-97 but PA messed that up. And 12-16 was awesome but it always seemed like we were just short.    60’s-early 80’s, we expected to be good most years. In the way that Yankee fans do today.    One thing I’d like to remind everyone. If I could go back and tell my young self anything about those days it would be this.    Appreciate this time and enjoy it. Yes losing in the WS in ‘79 hurt but it was absolute heaven compared to the dark run of 14 years of total suckitude.    This is a great time. We have a fantastic team, likeable players, a pretty damn good manager, one of the games best GMs, one of the best farm systems and we hope to find out we have one of the games best owners.     Im not saying fans shouldn’t fan. Everyone should feel free to complain about whatever. But, don’t forget to enjoy this. Because it’s not guaranteed. No matter what we think the future holds.    I am certain when Cal Ripken, Jr caught the final out in the 1983 World Series, he thought it was the first of many titles. I know I did.    I was wrong. And I intend to enjoy every game of this. Win or lose. And feeling that way has made me almost laugh in these late inning comebacks like last night.    Yes we will lose on an errant throw from Gunner occasionally. But I believe in this organization and I think it is finally driving in the right direction.    It’s a great time to be an Oriole fan and I can’t wait to use my ticket plan to see my first game of the year on 4/29 against the MF Skankees.     
    • Totally, up until this last draft it seems like the philosophy was that pitchers have way more volatility so might as well hope you hit on the later picks. This past draft they used a lot more draft capital on pitchers throughout the whole draft so chances are probably improved that one will work out nicely.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Popular Now

×
×
  • Create New...