Jump to content

Steinbrenner: Torre gone if they lose this series

SteveA

By SteveA
in MLB

Recommended Posts

RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

Posted
Posted
I don't agree that they are our rivals..They don't even think about us at all. The reason the Red Sox/Yankees rivalry works is because they're both always good.

I think you're looking at this through a very-narrow time-window. Until 2004, the supposedly "great rivalry" between BOS and MFY always had the MFY winning. What kind of rivalry is that? When one team wins all the time? The word for that is not "rivalry", the proper term is "abusive relationship". And, speaking of abusive relationships, until the recent period of great Oriole suckitude, the O's were the only team in baseball that had a lifetime winning record vs. the Yankees. Nobody else. Just the O's.

Our fans choose to root against the Yankees because they're always good, it's that simple.

That's not even close to true. Hating (and beating) the Yankees is the one great constant of the Oriole tradition ever since the team got here. This remained true whether the Yankees were good or bad. Now that they're good again, beating the snot out of NY is once again a key stepping stone on the way to getting pennants.

You may not be imbued with the Orioles tradition. But that doesn't mean it's not there, it only means you didn't grow up in it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 93
  • Created
  • Last Reply
beaner Veteran All-Star

beaner

Posted
Posted
I think you're looking at this through a very-narrow time-window. Until 2004, the supposedly "great rivalry" between BOS and MFY always had the MFY winning. What kind of rivalry is that? When one team wins all the time? The word for that is not "rivalry", the proper term is "abusive relationship". And, speaking of abusive relationships, until the recent period of great Oriole suckitude, the O's were the only team in baseball that had a lifetime winning record vs. the Yankees. Nobody else. Just the O's.

That's not even close to true. Hating (and beating) the Yankees is the one great constant of the Oriole tradition ever since the team got here. This remained true whether the Yankees were good or bad. Now that they're good again, beating the snot out of NY is once again a key stepping stone on the way to getting pennants.

The Sox Yankees rivalry goes back to Babe Ruth, the fans have always felt it. One sided or not.

As for your second point, while you're right it's because of their success that beating them was so important back then to make us legit contenders. I see what you're saying, but we're not even close to them right now, and them losing to Cleveland certainly doesn't help our chances of getting pennants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

Posted
Posted
I see what you're saying, but we're not even close to them right now, and them losing to Cleveland certainly doesn't help our chances of getting pennants.

That's not the point. The point is that hating the Yankees isn't some vacuous superficial trend. It's always been a part of the Oriole tradition, no matter which team was better at the time. You may not be imbued with the Orioles tradition. But that doesn't mean it's not there, it only means you didn't grow up in it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
beaner Veteran All-Star

beaner

Posted
Posted
That's not the point. The point is that hating the Yankees isn't some vacuous superficial trend. It's always been a part of the Oriole tradition, no matter which team was better at the time. You may not be imbued with the Orioles tradition. But that doesn't mean it's not there, it only means you didn't grow up in it.

I've been an Orioles fan since I could walk, so I don't see your point about "tradition". In fact, it's just plain not true. I don't hate the Yankees, I love the Orioles. Saying I'm not imbued with tradition is downright ridiculous. As if it makes you or anyone "more of a fan" to hate a certain team. I love Baseball, and hold the entire sport in very high regard. It's that simple to me, it's not about hating the Yankees or any team for that matter. Maybe it sounds cheesy, but I don't care. I don't root for the Yankees, but really don't care who wins or loses this series vs. Cleveland. I don't think it makes me less of an Orioles fan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

Posted
Posted
Me too, and i never had that for the Yankees..Yeah, it sucked when they beat us in '96, but that's it. We've been pretty bad during their whole recent run. I just don't get it.

I usually agree with you, but I don't get how you don't get this. The Yanks are in our division, they win the division all the time, they spend way more money than anyone else, have 4 WS titles in the last 11 years, beat us consistently, fill our stadium with their annoying, cocky fans, and get tons of media love. I think that's enough reason to dislike them.

UNC was losing to Duke all the time for awhile, but you still hated Duke right? This isn't on the same level, but it's probably more like Maryland fans hating Duke.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

Posted
Posted
I've been an Orioles fan since I could walk, so I don't see your point about "tradition". In fact, it's just plain not true. I don't hate the Yankees, I love the Orioles. Saying I'm not imbued with tradition is downright ridiculous. As if it makes you or anyone "more of a fan" to hate a certain team. I love Baseball, and hold the entire sport in very high regard. It's that simple to me, it's not about hating the Yankees or any team for that matter. Maybe it sounds cheesy, but I don't care. I don't root for the Yankees, but really don't care who wins or loses this series vs. Cleveland. I don't think it makes me less of an Orioles fan.

It certainly doesn't make you any less of an O's fan, but I think a dislike for the Yanks is pretty much an O's tradition. You're one of the very few O's fans I've ever talked to that haven't hated the Yanks.

BTW, I think a lot of Baltimore people just dislike NY teams in general.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
beaner Veteran All-Star

beaner

Posted
Posted
I usually agree with you, but I don't get how you don't get this. The Yanks are in our division, they win the division all the time, they spend way more money than anyone else, have 4 WS titles in the last 11 years, beat us consistently, fill our stadium with their annoying, cocky fans, and get tons of media love. I think that's enough reason to dislike them.

UNC was losing to Duke all the time for awhile, but you still hated Duke right? This isn't on the same level, but it's probably more like Maryland fans hating Duke.

I always hated Duke, and always will, whether they're good or bad. I get that. And seeing them win all of the time is annoying, I'm not denying that. I guess my bottom line is that no matter what the Yankees do, it really doesn't affect the O's at all. Our fans shouldn't be THIS happy to see them lose when the O's are simply awful. They get tons of media love because they're really good. We'd get that love too if we'd stop losing every year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

Posted
Posted
I've been an Orioles fan since I could walk, so I don't see your point about "tradition". In fact, it's just plain not true. I don't hate the Yankees, I love the Orioles. Saying I'm not imbued with tradition is downright ridiculous. As if it makes you or anyone "more of a fan" to hate a certain team. I love Baseball, and hold the entire sport in very high regard. It's that simple to me, it's not about hating the Yankees or any team for that matter. Maybe it sounds cheesy, but I don't care. I don't root for the Yankees, but really don't care who wins or loses this series vs. Cleveland. I don't think it makes me less of an Orioles fan.

Oh, jeez, please don't start the "real fan" thing. I'm not saying anything like that. But I am saying that it is entirely normal for baseball fans in Baltimore to grow up with a tradition of Yankee rivalry. It's not just a certain age group. I know families where the kids are college-age, and that tradition is just as much true for them as it is for somebody older like me. For whatever reasons, you're not imbued with that same spirit about things. I ain't saying that makes you a bad person, I'm just saying that you somehow missed getting part of a very well-established and long-standing fundamental Orioles fan tradition. I think that's true, but I don't see why we have to go off and say that it's either "good" or "bad", it just "is"...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
beaner Veteran All-Star

beaner

Posted
Posted
It certainly doesn't make you any less of an O's fan, but I think a dislike for the Yanks is pretty much an O's tradition. You're one of the very few O's fans I've ever talked to that haven't hated the Yanks.

BTW, I think a lot of Baltimore people just dislike NY teams in general.

I guess it's just me then. Maybe if the O's ever do compete with them, it'll give me a reason to hate them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

Posted
Posted
I always hated Duke, and always will, whether they're good or bad. I get that. And seeing them win all of the time is annoying, I'm not denying that. I guess my bottom line is that no matter what the Yankees do, it really doesn't affect the O's at all. Our fans shouldn't be THIS happy to see them lose when the O's are simply awful. They get tons of media love because they're really good. We'd get that love too if we'd stop losing every year.

Well whatever the Yanks do right now doesn't really affect the O's, yeah, but that the same can often be said when you're watching a Duke game or any other teams you don't like. And if the Yanks fall off in the near future, that will give the O's a better chance at contending.

What I bolded is a big part of why we get so much pleasure from seeing them lose, we don't have much else to be happy about when it comes to baseball.

The last line I agree with as you know, but I wasn't comparing the attention they get to the attention we get, just saying that the media love does get old, regardless of whether or not it's deserved. However, it's often not deserved, Jeter is the perfect example of that, he's overrated by the media by a lot, and it is annoying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
beaner Veteran All-Star

beaner

Posted
Posted
Oh, jeez, please don't start the "real fan" thing. I'm not saying anything like that. But I am saying that it is entirely normal for baseball fans in Baltimore to grow up with a tradition of Yankee rivalry. It's not just a certain age group. I know families where the kids are college-age, and that tradition is just as much true for them as it is for somebody older like me. For whatever reasons, you're not imbued with that same spirit about things. I ain't saying that makes you a bad person, I'm just saying that you somehow missed getting part of a very well-established and long-standing fundamental Orioles fan tradition. I think that's true, but I don't see why we have to go off and say that it's either "good" or "bad", it just "is"...

Honestly, i know you're right and it exists, but I just don't feel the same way for the reasons I stated above. I know it's not just a certain age group, and I wonder if more people in my age range 33-38ish, feel the way I do. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I have a tremendous amount of respect for a team that has had as much success as the Yankees have had recently. That's all. I'm not rooting for them to win, I appreciate their success and don't begrudge them for it for whatever reason.

All of this being said, I dislike the current Red Sox team quite a bit, but like I said to Stallion earlier in this thread, I don't get 1% of the joy when Boston loses that many on here get when New York does.

And yes, the "real fan" comeback was lame, a weak moment, per se.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

Posted
Posted
I guess it's just me then. Maybe if the O's ever do compete with them, it'll give me a reason to hate them.

Well than I hope you start hating the Yanks soon.:) I don't care if you hate the Yanks or not, but are you still standing by the you don't get it comment?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

Posted
Posted
BTW, I think a lot of Baltimore people just dislike NY teams in general.

I think it was 1969 that did that. Their guys beat our guys in 3 different post-seasons:

* O's and Mets

* Colts and Jets

* Bullets and Knicks

The first two of those were among the great upsets of all time. It was a bad year to be a Baltimore sports fan, despite the fact that we had great teams... and 100% of it was vs. NY.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
beaner Veteran All-Star

beaner

Posted
Posted
Well than I hope you start hating the Yanks soon.:) I don't care if you hate the Yanks or not, but are you still standing by the you don't get it comment?

No, I get it. I wish i had the same passion to be honest. I'm watching this series, with great passionate fans on both sides and i could honestly care less who wins. It just leaves me wanting the O's to be playing in something this important.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

Posted
Posted
I think it was 1969 that did that. Their guys beat our guys in 3 different post-seasons:

* O's and Mets

* Colts and Jets

* Bullets and Knicks

The first two of those were among the great upsets of all time. It was a bad year to be a Baltimore sports fan, and 100% of it was vs. NY.

I wasn't alive, but I was aware of that, and that must have been a brutal year for BMore fans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing


  • Posts

    • Since1984
      Was the offense just in a run of bad luck on this road trip?

      By Since1984 · Posted

      The Orioles need to hit a flare base hit every now and then. Said this the other day during the game thread. Jeter was the master of wearing flare during his career
    • Brian88
      2024 Week 2: Ravens vs Raiders

      By Brian88 · Posted

      And we’ve had different defensive coordinators during that time frame, Harbaugh is the constant yet again.
    • BRobinsonfan
      Was the offense just in a run of bad luck on this road trip?

      By BRobinsonfan · Posted

      I would add that Mountcastle and Urias were also losses to the offense.  Throw in a couple of slumps to our other regulars, creating 4-5 weak spots in the offense, and that's a lot to overcome.  I don't discount the mental part of hitting, but I do think most of our problems are directly linked to the rash of injuries we've suffered.  
    • luismatos4prez
      Trevor Rogers 2024

      By luismatos4prez · Posted

      Just my opinion. ZiPS projects him for a .708 OPS next year and I'd bet on the under. I think he's a .230/.295/.395 hitter with a below average glove. A Rio Ruiz type of player.
    • BRobinsonfan
      Sept 15 Roster Moves

      By BRobinsonfan · Posted

      We have to keep Irvin "pumped up."  When he's "deflated" he's just no good.  🤣
    • gtman55
      Was the offense just in a run of bad luck on this road trip?

      By gtman55 · Posted

      There just seems to be some sort of disconnect between upper management, coaching and the players right now. Do I know that for sure? Obviously no. But with the dropoff we've seen in offensive production something is off here. They literally have been mediocre since the All Star break. And the only big loss on the offensive side is Westburg. 
    • LookitsPuck
      Heston Kjerstad 2024

      By LookitsPuck · Posted

      There are no answers, only Zuul. But seriously, I think the issue at play here is we look at the body of work of guys like Eloy, Slater, O'Hearn, Rivera, and (to a lesser extent) Soto, you see where the holes are. I get that O'Hearn was thrust into 1B near FT due to the Mountcastle injury, but that didn't explain Hyde from playing O'Hearn in the OF when he is one of the worst defensive OFers on this team. Right now, this team is very much ailing. Ramon coming back will definitely help spell the need for O'Hearn to be a 1B by maybe letting Rivera play over there.  We need to get back to a point where O'Hearn is only hitting against righties and is playing sparingly in the field. Eloy is a liability at this point. I was a proponent of seeing what mechanical tweaks they could make similar to what they did w/ Hicks (and even O'Hearn!) and they did catch lightning in a bottle maybe due to excitement/adrenaline and BABIP being unsustainably high, but right now his flyballs aren't carrying and his groundballs aren't finding holes, so there's probably a reason why Chicago is saying, "Haha, told you so!" This team is in freefall offensively, at this point...just give the ABs to Mayo. You can't simultaneously say, "He needs to make adjustments!" and then let him have 5 ABs over 5 games. That isn't a way to grow a player. Not everybody can be a part time player and be effective off the bench/sparingly. Kjerstad has shown an ability to hit lefties in the minors as well as in the majors (albeit in very limited time, he his 4 for 10 against them). Let the kid play. Slater has fallen off a cliff, but at least he's a solid defensive OFer I get it, nobody is going to solve the offensive woes of this team when it comes to the rookies/young guys. Mayo, Holliday, Kjerstad, even Cowser...they're all still adjusting. The change needs to come from the main stays. Now, Adley is starting to hit, Gunnar is back on a hitting binge, but this lineup desperately needs some consistent production from Tony to go along with it because right now way too much pressure is being put on the bottom of the lineup and the young guys. And I'm not convinced Westy solves any of those issues as wrist injuries are a beast to bounceback from quickly.   

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...