Steinbrenner: Torre gone if they lose this series

[longflyball]

I can not STAND the arrogant ass way he puts his hand up to tell the umpire that he isn't ready to have a pitch yet. I'm waiting for that damn hand to get ignored.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who is irked by this. Derek Jeter, like the Yankees in general, is also particularly bad when it comes to whining about called strikes. Yes, yes, we know your plate discipline is legendary, but a pitch down the middle is still a strike.

I hate the Yankees and I don't have any respect for what they've done since about 2002, when their payroll began to skyrocket far above every other team and they began their cycle of collecting overpaid 30-something rentals. The list is nauseating. Neagle, Justice, Clemens, White, Ventura, Giambi, Clark, Sheffield, Brown, Johnson, Pavano, Vazquez, etc. The Yankees have won, but they have not won in a manner that is deserving of my respect.

On the other hand, I have a tremendous amount of respect for what the Patriots have done, regardless of what the media or their fans may say or do or how many times they may beat the Ravens, because they have done it in an environment where sustained success is frowned upon and mediocrity is applauded. The playing field is not just equal. It is actually tilted against the good teams.

[longflyball]

I can't deny that Red Sox fandom and the media treatment of the Red Sox have gotten significantly more obnoxious over the last decade. But realistically' date=' it could never approach the level of obnoxiousness attained in the Bronx. When the Red Sox beat the Yankees in 2004, my uncle, who is a Yankees fan, actually said with a straight face, "I don't really get upset about losses in the LCS. I'm a YANKEE fan: we only get truly upset when they lose in the World Series." As someone who takes more than a casual interest in sports, and who has never watched his favorite team play in a World Series, this is simply not relatable for me. I can't relate to fans that consider 2002-2007, a stretch where the Yankees have made the playoffs every year, and won a pennant, a "dry spell". I can't relate to fans that can win every argument by saying "27 rings" or however many it is. I'm not saying the track record isn't impressive, I just can't relate to it or embrace it.

Nobody likes bandwagon fans. Nobody likes having their stadium invaded. Nobody likes "Fever Pitch." But as obnoxious as they can be, Red Sox fans are really just enjoying and basking in an era when their team is very, very good. That's fine with me. Yankee fans have a view of the universe where their team is bigger than baseball. Watch what happens if the Yankees' run of playoff disappearances ever ends. Get ready for a barrage of comments from the media and fans like, "it's bad for baseball that the Yankees aren't in the playoffs" or "the championship isn't special this year because nobody had to get past the Yankees." Remember when they were outraged that Derek Jeter wasn't on the All-Star team, not because he was having a great season, but just because "he's the face of baseball"? I caught a game on YES where Michael Kay was complaining because the Yankees were scheduled to be in Toronto, outside the country, on Memorial Day, even though [i']the Yankees are America, dammit!!![/i] They're the only fans (at least in pro sports) that see their team's history as some sort of meta-narrative, where it isn't just a timeline of fond memories and great players, it's a permanent place at the center of the sport. Maybe the '80s changed that, but now it's back, and with 24-hour sports media in place, it's stronger than ever. It may be the truth to a certain extent, but I'm not going to lay down and like it. To me "Yankees Suck" isn't a statement of fact, although I wish it were, it's a cry of defiance, that I'm not going to kiss their rings, that I don't think the Golden Age of baseball coincides with their dynasties, and that Derek Jeter might be a great player, but if he's only having a so-so season it's not the end of the frickin' world if he sits out the All-Star Game.

And I'll say it again: at this point, between Ortiz, Ramirez, Schilling, and Beckett, I'd say the Red Sox have just as many guys with great postseason resumes as the Yankees do.

Well said. I think this expression captures it well: being a fan of the MFY is like someone observing a game of blackjack in a casino and pulling for the house to hit 21.

[66-70-83-??]

I guess I am the oddball here- I have no problem with Steinbrenner insisting on Torre winning to save his job.

Say what you will about George, but he consistently pays above market rates for all his players, coaches, and managers so naturally high expectations come with it.

[rolliefingers]

When the Red Sox beat the Yankees in 2004' date=' my uncle, who is a Yankees fan, actually said with a straight face, "I don't really get upset about losses in the LCS. I'm a YANKEE fan: we only get truly upset when they lose in the World Series." As someone who takes more than a casual interest in sports, and who has never watched his favorite team play in a World Series, this is simply not relatable for me. I can't relate to fans that consider 2002-2007, a stretch where the Yankees have made the playoffs every year, and won a pennant, a "dry spell". I can't relate to fans that can win every argument by saying "27 rings" or however many it is. I'm not saying the track record isn't impressive, I just can't relate to it or embrace it.

Nobody likes bandwagon fans. Nobody likes having their stadium invaded. Nobody likes "Fever Pitch." But as obnoxious as they can be, Red Sox fans are really just enjoying and basking in an era when their team is very, very good. That's fine with me. Yankee fans have a view of the universe where their team is bigger than baseball. Watch what happens if the Yankees' run of playoff disappearances ever ends. Get ready for a barrage of comments from the media and fans like, "it's bad for baseball that the Yankees aren't in the playoffs" or "the championship isn't special this year because nobody had to get past the Yankees." Remember when they were outraged that Derek Jeter wasn't on the All-Star team, not because he was having a great season, but just because "he's the face of baseball"? I caught a game on YES where Michael Kay was complaining because the Yankees were scheduled to be in Toronto, outside the country, on Memorial Day, even though [i']the Yankees are America, dammit!!![/i] They're the only fans (at least in pro sports) that see their team's history as some sort of meta-narrative, where it isn't just a timeline of fond memories and great players, it's a permanent place at the center of the sport. Maybe the '80s changed that, but now it's back, and with 24-hour sports media in place, it's stronger than ever. It may be the truth to a certain extent, but I'm not going to lay down and like it. To me "Yankees Suck" isn't a statement of fact, although I wish it were, it's a cry of defiance, that I'm not going to kiss their rings, that I don't think the Golden Age of baseball coincides with their dynasties, and that Derek Jeter might be a great player, but if he's only having a so-so season it's not the end of the frickin' world if he sits out the All-Star Game.

Beautifully said. This sums it up quite nicely. It's not that they win all the time. It's the dripping arrogance. I'm always rooting for them to get knocked down a peg, or ten.