Who knows if this is true or not...

[Bradysburns]

I'm almost happy that there is a disconnect here, at least the two sides recognize there is a problem. Its not good that both sides are blaming the other side rather than coming together to figure out how to best move forward, but at least they recognize an issue.

This is where MacPhail needs to step in and come up with one organizational approach, to scout and draft primarily a certain type of player and to have the development team on board with how they will develop those players.

Um, ya. Andy? You might want to think about doing that at some point. No rush, though.

If we don't have an organizational approach that has been handed down to scouting and player development, what the hell has AM been doing all this time? I thought we at least had THAT part handled? I mean, I know he had to negotiate the Atkins contract, but really... And I know the MLB team sucks horribly, but my cold comfort so far has been that our farm system was solid... with a strong hitting/pitching philosophy being applied consistently, etc.

This really is about as bad as it gets. Jake Arrieta, thank you for the one bright spot lately.

[Mackus]

Who is "the MacPhail player", though?

Beane had his OBP guys, the Twins have their strike throwers...what kind of players do we look for? In the past it has been athletic players, but that hasn't worked.

I don't care, and it doesn't even really have to be one type of player that he likes.

Just sit the scouting people and the development people down, and have them figure out what the strengths and weaknesses of both are, and then make it their business to try and find players that can benefit from the type of tutelage that we are best at.

I don't think they should limit their focus to one specific type of player. But I do think they should try and lean towards guys that we are confident we can develop.

[NewMarketSean]

It would be refreshing to hear that MacPhail initiated a front office sit down with the heads of the five families. I am sure the O's would say it was to smooth things over, but a front office meeting taking place right now would pretty much speak for itself.

[Mackus]

I agree with most of your post. However, if there are certain players that we are not good at developing then that cries out for some changes in the player development side of things. There shouldn't be a type of player that we aren't good at developing and other teams might be.

I agree that there shouldn't be any one type of player that we are bad at developing, but there are obviously going to be areas where we are stronger than others, its just the way everything works.

[TGO]

Not the first time I've heard something like this, and it makes perfect sense. When the system isn't producing prospects at a good rate, either the drafting or the development is at fault, so of course each is going to blame the other. But remember that the two Stockstills traded places this year, and from what I've heard, John and Dave are two very different personalities with different skill sets. If there has been a problem on the player development side over the last several years, John isn't to blame, so there's no reason for him to need to defend his record in a dispute with the scouting/drafting side.

Even though David is no longer player development, he could still be the "player development" in "player development vs. scouting." When he was bumped from his job there was almost certainly a discussion of what had gone wrong in player development, no? To protect himself he most likely challenged what the scouting department gave him to work with. A fight like that could still be going on even after David was moved out of development. Rifts like that do not heal quickly.

[flashjordnk]

I agree with most of your post. However, if there are certain players that we are not good at developing then that cries out for some changes in the player development side of things. There shouldn't be a type of player that we aren't good at developing and other teams might be.

I do wonder how quickly you can systematically change over an entire system. On some level getting out everyone and replacing them with new people seems like a great idea, but I don't imagine there is that much development talent out there.

The O's probably have the guys in places they have for a reason (though not a given) and if they do, they probably would prefer to change their mentalities then lose their expertise and history with players/the O's completely.

If that's the case, this is hard problem to fix quickly.

Replacing everyone could create some serious talent voids and some serious player development problems. It's easy to say it couldn't be worse than it is, but a serious overhaul of a whole department could potentially wreck our MiL in a short period.

Does anyone have any idea about how often these minor league coaches turn over? And if the O's put value on continuity of coaching at a lower level.

[Tony-OH]

This is old news. I've talked about this rift before and most of it was cleared up when David Stockstill moved to another position. But clearly, Jordan feels better about drafting raw but projectable pitchers than he does hitters. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to stop him from drafting guys like Avery, Givens, and Hudson over the last few years when this organization is yet to develop these kinds of guys.

At the same time, I know there are guys showing up into the minor league system with certain "numbers" from scouting reports and are not these guys when evaluated. Guys who will "stick at short" or guys who can do "x" end up not being those guys.

I've gotten a lot of reports on guys and when I see them I'm like, "Huh?" Unfortunately, those are the same reaction as some of the player development guys as well.

There are cracks in the armor everywhere.

[mcgraw238]

This is old news. I've talked about his rift before and most of it was cleared up when David Stockstill moved to another postion. But clearly, Jordan feels better about drafting raw but projectable pitchers than he does hitters. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to stop him from drafting guys like Avery, Givens, and Hudson over the last few years when this organization is yet to develop these kinds of guys.

At the same time, I know there are guys showing up into the minor league system with certain "numbers" from scouting reports and are not these guys when evaluated. Guys who will "stick at short" or guys who can do "x" end up not being those guys.

I've gotten a lot of reports on guys and when I see them I'm like, "Huh?" Unfortunately, those are the same reaction as some of the player development guys as well.

There are cracks in the armor everywhere.

Wow. That's suggesting that the ameteur scouting side is really whiffing on their analysis. And I take it that the collective message is that we are lacking the leadership to address the organization and fix these "cracks."

[Tony-OH]

..but figured I would share it...This was PM'ed to me:

http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=253850&page=3

This is from the Sun board(a thread which Tony responded in btw..traitor! LOL)

Anyway, I think it is very possible that there is something to this...Judging by different hints that Tony has dropped, there is obviously some issues inside the organization.

BTW, I normally stay as far away as possible from that place but that one character just finally got under my skin. I usually don't care what lies and misrepresentations are said about me and the site over there, but it popped up on my google alert so I made the mistake of checking it out.

It really is ashamed that guy and a few others have so much hate for me. It truly is unhealthy, but hey, what can you do?

[Slappy]

I think conditioning and training are the third rotten leg of the footstool. We invest millions in Matt Hobgood, who has had weight and conditioning issues in the past...he has weight and conditioning issues when he reports last summer...then we let him "train" on his own over the offseason and are dismayed when he shows up to training camp in bad shape. Shouldn't someone in the organization be paying attention to what players are doing over the offseason?

So true. The whole Roberts mess, Huff's lost 2009, Hobgood, Tillman who is underweight, more than our fair share of injuries over the past several years... Something stinks in the organizational conditioning program.

In the player development vs. drafting argument, they are both to blame. Guys like Hobgood and Rowell should never have been drafted in those early rounds. And the whole "athlete" focus is just folly in baseball, which is more of a skills game. On the other hand, player development has done absolutely nothing on the position player side - you would think at least one of those guys would have percolated up.

[Going Underground]

It would be refreshing to hear that MacPhail initiated a front office sit down with the heads of the five families. I am sure the O's would say it was to smooth things over, but a front office meeting taking place right now would pretty much speak for itself.

Can the five families have a sit down in Jersey? Don Angelos and his two sons in charge.Angelos:"You are killing me with this record" Andy Soprano:"How do we turn it around and who do we need to wipe out." Angelos:"The Yankee and Red Sox nation for one".Andy Soprano:"Done and Done. Also we can get that Tex kid from the neighborhood to switch allegiances".

[Sports Guy]

BTW, I normally stay as far away as possible but that one character just finally got under my skin. I usually don't care what lies and misrepresentations are said about me and the site over there, but it popped up on my google alert so I made the mistake of checking it out.

It really is ashamed that guy and a few others have so much hate for me. It truly is unhealthy, but hey, what can you do?

Tony..you need to take a page from my book...When someone gets under my skin, I never ever respond to them. Just do what i do and you will be fine.

[Sports Guy]

This is something I have been saying for a while.

Jordan likes these athletes first type guys but then he drafts them into a system that can't develop them.

Its like the Machado vs Colon argument...Yes, Machado has more upside and talent but Colon is as close to a sure thing as you can get and Machado needs to be developed.

When you hear about this stuff, where is your confidence level at in terms of them being able to develop Machado?

Its almost as if he has to develop in spite of the Orioles, not because of them.

The scouting sucks...the development team sucks...The advanced scouting sucks..The coaching sucks.

Yes, this team MUST totally gut this organization from owner on down.

[Sports Guy]

This is old news. I've talked about this rift before and most of it was cleared up when David Stockstill moved to another position. But clearly, Jordan feels better about drafting raw but projectable pitchers than he does hitters. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to stop him from drafting guys like Avery, Givens, and Hudson over the last few years when this organization is yet to develop these kinds of guys.

At the same time, I know there are guys showing up into the minor league system with certain "numbers" from scouting reports and are not these guys when evaluated. Guys who will "stick at short" or guys who can do "x" end up not being those guys.

I've gotten a lot of reports on guys and when I see them I'm like, "Huh?" Unfortunately, those are the same reaction as some of the player development guys as well.

There are cracks in the armor everywhere.

Why didn't they just fire Dave Stockstill? He proved that he wasn't good in his role, so why keep him around?

And if this is old news and has been going on for a while, then what does this say about a guy like AM? He can't get these guys together? He can't just get rid of the bad apples and bring in guys with a clue?

This is really really pathetic.

Its no wonder we can't win games.

[RustyMcNail]

Tony..you need to take a page from my book...When someone gets under my skin, I never ever respond to them. Just do what i do and you will be fine.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

SG, you are too much! I luv ya, man! :clap3::clap3: