Markakis speaks out

[The Rick]

No it isn't. You're twisting that into something it's not. That part is not a quote from Nick, nor did the write attribute it to him. That's the sportswriter making a parenthetical comment. There's nothing there saying Nick said what Crow does and doesn't teach. All the writer said about Nick is that he said it's not Crow's fault.

'Gotta agree.

Crowley may advocate an (overly) aggressive approach but Markakis didn't say it in this article.

Just because Markakis didn't "say it" in quotes, doesn't mean the writer didn't get it from the players. It's not like he's going to put quote marks around that and throw one of the players under the bus. That's not a good way to get future interviews.

BTW, it's ridiculous to keep arguing this. If you can't tell that Crowley advocates an aggressive approach by the way ALL of his teams have played over the past decade plus then I don't know what to tell you.

[RShack]

Just because Markakis didn't "say it" in quotes, doesn't mean the writer didn't get it from the players.

Flawless logic...

[The Rick]

Flawless logic...

Flawless in your attempts to be as close minded as humanly possible... per the usual. Kudos!

[Moose Milligan]

Jones's approach has gotten better...however he's still not good at being selective and going up to hit with any type of plan. I think he can get there, though.

[makoman]

I thought Nick Markakis was a clubhouse cancer? :scratchchinhmm:

Anyway, like almost everyone else, I love hearing this from him. I hope he's trying to do more behind closed doors, if it's possible.

[Sports Guy]

No it isn't. You're twisting that into something it's not. That part is not a quote from Nick, nor did the writer attribute it to him. That's the sportswriter making a parenthetical comment. There's nothing there saying Nick said what Crow does and doesn't teach. All the writer said about Nick is that he said it's not Crow's fault.

I never attributed it to Nick..It was something Zrebiac wrote.

So, here and now, you are calling Zrebiac a liar, right? You are saying that he is a beat writer that is just making stuff up? Do I have that right?

[El Gordo]

Being aggressive is fine, but being stupidly aggressive is well stupid.

Wiggy has been pissing me off recently, I swear if he swings at the first pitch one more time... Jones had that problem in April, both of them are/ were trying too hard; trying to hit a five run homer every at bat. Jones figured it out a bit over the last month.

Wieters just looks totally lost.

Nothing wrong with swinging at the first pitch...... unless you miss it. Theres a difference between being aggressive in the sense that you have an idea about a pitch you are going to get in a certain zone, and when you get it go for it. Just going up and hacking with no idea, like Nick is discribing and AJ and Scott and CPatt among others do, is dumb and has nothing to do with what Crowley teaches.

[Mad Mark]

Look, I'm just an old, broken down softball player, but hitting is hard...even when they're lobbing the damned thing up there. When you have the best in the world going up against the best in the world, it's exponentially harder...and I can see the tiniest little thing going out of whack and putting hitters off thier game for weeks.

Now the fact that hitting is hard doesn't in any way excuse going to the plate without a plan or a clue...nor does it mean that Aubrey Huff's "see ball, hit ball" scheme is illegitimate...in fact, it might be an approach that could do Matt Wieters a world of good. (In Huff's case, it would seem adding "hit weight room, miss buffet" to his off-season regimen didn't hurt a bit, either.)

Meandering back to the main thrust of this thread, I commend Nick Markakis for speaking out and hope he's had even more to say to his teammates than he did to the Sun.

[tvz1997]

Just because Markakis didn't "say it" in quotes, doesn't mean the writer didn't get it from the players. It's not like he's going to put quote marks around that and throw one of the players under the bus. That's not a good way to get future interviews.

BTW, it's ridiculous to keep arguing this. If you can't tell that Crowley advocates an aggressive approach by the way ALL of his teams have played over the past decade plus then I don't know what to tell you.

The Hardball Times is saying it (and they are right), but I'm not to impressed with their "statistical analysis."

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-terry-crowley-effect/

[Frobby]

From the article:

Markakis again said that the team's offensive issues shouldn't be blamed on long-time hitting coach Terry Crowley, who is known for advocating an aggressive approach at the plate

(The bolded part was bolded by SG.)

Well there it is...So many people have said this and many people have said people are crazy for saying it..that we have nothing to back it up.

Well, here it is.

I appreciate that Nick isn' trying to throw Crow under the bus but he is essentially saying that the team is too aggressive which seems to point at Crow.

And isn't the fact that they are going up there with no plan also a reflection on Crow and the advanced scouting?

Just pointing this out for S and G.

No it isn't. You're twisting that into something it's not. That part is not a quote from Nick, nor did the writer attribute it to him. That's the sportswriter making a parenthetical comment. There's nothing there saying Nick said what Crow does and doesn't teach. All the writer said about Nick is that he said it's not Crow's fault.

Just because Markakis didn't "say it" in quotes, doesn't mean the writer didn't get it from the players. It's not like he's going to put quote marks around that and throw one of the players under the bus. That's not a good way to get future interviews.

BTW, it's ridiculous to keep arguing this. If you can't tell that Crowley advocates an aggressive approach by the way ALL of his teams have played over the past decade plus then I don't know what to tell you.

I never attributed it to Nick..It was something Zrebiac wrote.

So, here and now, you are calling Zrebiac a liar, right? You are saying that he is a beat writer that is just making stuff up? Do I have that right?

I think the way you bolded the last part of Zriebec's sentence, and then said "well here it is," sort of implied that Nick was saying Crowley's approach was too aggressive, even though Nick elsewhere said the hitters' problems were "110 percent not his fault." But it is Zriebec, not Nick, who said that "Crowley is known for advocating an aggressive approach at the plate." And we don't know if that's Zriebec referring to something else Nick said that he's not quoting, or whether that's just Zriebec's own reporting of general information.

What I'd really like to know is what Zriebec's question to Nick was that caused him to comment on Crowley.

In any event, I'm glad Nick said what he said. If all of our hitters had a similar approach to Nick's, we'd be a much better hitting team. Whatever it is that Crowley teaches, it seems like guys like BRob, Nick and Reimold (when he's here) are able to come up to the plate with a good approach, and the other players need to step up and do the same.

[Sports Guy]

From the article:

(The bolded part was bolded by SG.)

I think the way you bolded the last part of Zriebec's sentence, and then said "well here it is," sort of implied that Nick was saying Crowley's approach was too aggressive, even though Nick elsewhere said the hitters' problems were "110 percent not his fault." But it is Zriebec, not Nick, who said that "Crowley is known for advocating an aggressive approach at the plate." And we don't know if that's Zriebec referring to something else Nick said that he's not quoting, or whether that's just Zriebec's own reporting of general information.

What I'd really like to know is what Zriebec's question to Nick was that caused him to comment on Crowley.

In any event, I'm glad Nick said what he said. If all of our hitters had a similar approach to Nick's, we'd be a much better hitting team. Whatever it is that Crowley teaches, it seems like guys like BRob, Nick and Reimold (when he's here) are able to come up to the plate with a good approach, and the other players need to step up and do the same.

10+ years of the same problems every year...The one constant has been Crow.

You do the math.

BTW, pretty funny how Shack hasn't answered me...Guess we can assume he believes Zrebiac is making stuff up.

[NewMarketSean]

I don't see how anyone could call Crowley's teachings "non-aggressive".

He wants batters to swing and put the ball in play. I think the O's value that too...over guys who may take a lot of walks, but may also have lower AVG's. Look at the guys they've brought in here recently: Tejada, Atkins, Wigginton. It's clear they are not looking for OBP guys. When they have had some good OBP, power hitting guys like Cust, Knott, House and Terrero, they haven't done a good job realizing their value and maximizing it. They want aggressive hitters, and they have a hitting coach who goes with the territory.

Ironically, some of the hitters who have come through the system lately, are the opposite: Markakis, Reimold & Wieters are all guys who had good patience and strike zone knowledge throughout the minors. There is a reason those guys have made it all the way through the system, and had some success in the majors. And maybe guys like Reimold and Wieters are struggling now because Crowley's teachings go against what they have had success with in the minors.

Just a theory.

[Sports Guy]

I don't see how anyone could call Crowley's teachings "non-aggressive".

He wants batters to swing and put the ball in play. I think the O's value that too...over guys who may take a lot of walks, but may also have lower AVG's. Look at the guys they've brought in here recently: Tejada, Atkins, Wigginton. It's clear they are not looking for OBP guys. When they have had some good OBP, power hitting guys like Cust, Knott, House and Terrero, they haven't done a good job realizing their value and maximizing it. They want aggressive hitters, and they have a hitting coach who goes with the territory.

Ironically, some of the hitters who have come through the system lately, are the opposite: Markakis, Reimold & Wieters are all guys who had good patience and strike zone knowledge throughout the minors. There is a reason those guys have made it all the way through the system, and had some success in the majors.

A lot of the players they have seemingly drafted over the years also have this theory.

Its almost as if we have implemented a Mazzone-esque system...IE, the coach dictates to the system how to do things and who to bring in.

They have kept Crow on this staff, despite the awful results of the team year in and year and you have to wonder if he is having input on who to bring in.

I mean, look at the big picture here:

1) Always going after the same types of players.

2) YEars and years of the same sorry results.

3) PA obviously likes and values Crow.

Just too much of a coincidence here for there to not be something to this.

[NewMarketSean]

A lot of the players they have seemingly drafted over the years also have this theory.

Its almost as if we have implemented a Mazzone-esque system...IE, the coach dictates to the system how to do things and who to bring in.

They have kept Crow on this staff, despite the awful results of the team year in and year and you have to wonder if he is having input on who to bring in.

I mean, look at the big picture here:

1) Always going after the same types of players.

2) YEars and years of the same sorry results.

3) PA obviously likes and values Crow.

Just too much of a coincidence here for there to not be something to this.

I agree. It all goes back to the athletes they've drafted over the years instead of the guy who can jack 30 HR and get on base at a .350+ clip but maybe can't play really good defense or run well or strikes out a ton.

They have traits they like in a player. And they may even be the right traits. Teams can win with speed, defense and pitching. The O's have just not developed these kinds of guys. At all.

A massive paradigm shift in the organization should be taking place, now, and throughout the offseason.

[Frobby]

10+ years of the same problems every year...The one constant has been Crow.

You do the math.

BTW, pretty funny how Shack hasn't answered me...Guess we can assume he believes Zrebiac is making stuff up.

It's Zriebec, not Zriebac. But what did RShack say Zriebec made up? He's making the same point I did in my prior post -- Markakis said nothing negative about Crowley, and the statement that Crowley's approach is aggressive comes from Zriebec, not Markakis, so it is unclear why this article or Markakis's statements "prove" anything about Crowley one way or another.

I'm not defending Crowley here. I've been saying for at least three years now that it's fine with me if they replace him. But I just don't think this article is "evidence" against him. All it does, IMO, is show that Markakis believes what you, I and pretty much anyone else believes -- that a lot of his teammates have a lousy approach at the plate and need to get their heads screwed on straight. Nothing Markakis said suggests that it's the hitting coach's fault. Which doesn't mean that it isn't his fault, but it certainly doesn't mean that it is, either.