Who really controls the checkbook?

[mcgraw238]

A lot of this is true...the difference is you don't seem to understand how to go about doing it.

Trea's approach would have us looking like the east coast version of the Houston Astros.

[Birds of B'more]

Or maybe it's:

Angelos tells MacPhail "I'm hands off from now on, spend whatever you like, make any personnel changes you see fit" and MacPhail says "I think we can build this team like Tampa did. And you won't have to spend that much, Peter. I know we can do it with mostly all internal options, and I'll find some diamonds in the rough instead of you having to blow $100 million on some player. I can get the same performance with a lot less risk. How does that sound?"

I'm willing to bet that when Tony publishes his article we will see that this is not the case.

[Sports Guy]

BTW, not trying to make it sound like I am behind AM...I have been saying for a while not that he isn't aggressive or creative..That he takes too long and is too conservative.

He isn't doing what it takes to win in this division.

[JTrea81]

Yeah, but you're advocating trading off that farm system for big pieces. And we'd be left with those "decision makers" you covet with no farm system to support them.

And you honestly don't truly believe we have a good farm system...you hardly like any of our prospects and don't hesitate to throw anyone/everyone in a trade.

Clearly you do not understand that you can't build anything without a good, solid foundation. You can stack the Sears Tower onto a crumbling foundation and you'll be left with nothing...that's essentially what you always advocate in your trade ideas.

We've got that foundation in Jones, Wieters, Markakis and (hopefully still) Roberts, and then you have Matusz, Arrieta and likely Britton.

Like it or not we are committed to those players as the foundation of the next winning Orioles team. Unless you want to blow everything up again, you have to augment around them.

Anybody else not in that core should be deemed expendable to acquire difference making talent to support those players.

[SilentJames]

BTW, not trying to make it sound like I am behind AM...I have been saying for a while not that he isn't aggressive or creative..That he takes too long and is too conservative.

He isn't doing what it takes to win in this division.

Even though I still support AM it is painfully obvious that he needs to change his approach going into next offseason.

Not necessarily his overall ideals but how he goes about executing them.

[JTrea81]

I'm willing to bet that when Tony publishes his article we will see that this is not the case.

I was just quoting Rockbird's line. I agree that Angelos probably has his favorites in there, but they alone shouldn't hold the entire organization back.

It's not like Dave Stockstill can dictate how he wants things done to MacPhail, or at least I would hope it isn't that way...

[Birds of B'more]

BTW, not trying to make it sound like I am behind AM...I have been saying for a while not that he isn't aggressive or creative..That he takes too long and is too conservative.

He isn't doing what it takes to win in this division.

I agree with that assessment. And to top it off, along with his own shortcomings I bet AM is fighting with one hand tied behind his back with regard to improving the scouting and development side of things. It's a recipe for disaster, really.

[Birds of B'more]

I was just quoting Rockbird's line. I agree that Angelos probably has his favorites in there, but they alone shouldn't hold the entire organization back.

It's not like Dave Stockstill can dictate how he wants things done to MacPhail, or at least I would hope it isn't that way...

I hope not either. But with the hints Tony has been dropping I think that just might end up being the case.

[SilentJames]

We've got that foundation in Jones, Wieters, Markakis and (hopefully still) Roberts, and then you have Matusz, Arrieta and likely Britton.

Like it or not we are committed to those players as the foundation of the next winning Orioles team. Unless you want to blow everything up again, you have to augment around them.

Anybody else not in that core should be deemed expendable to acquire difference making talent to support those players.

What you are failing to understand is that the Orioles farm system has a very steep drop-off outside of that core.

Haven't you been watching? what happens when the core falters and no one is there to back them up?

[Dipper9]

Angelos is, by far and away, the big problem here. He isn't willing to do what it takes to win.

Putting 80-90 million into the ML team while ignoring scouting, international and player development is a waste. All it will do is mask the overall problem and give us excitement over an 85-ish win team.

AM probably wasn't willing to spend stupid money on worthless FAs like Figgins...so be it..That's smart.

AM had a terrible offseason because of who he signed and what he didn't do..not because he didn't piss money away on way overrated FAs.

Hell, an 85 win season would be cause for a PARADE down Light Street!

[JTrea81]

What you are failing to understand is that the Orioles farm system has a very steep drop-off outside of that core.

Haven't you been watching? what happens when the core falters and no one is there to back them up?

You have players in there that you don't worry about faltering. If you have difference making players in there to supplement, they'll take the slack from the core.

The problem as so many have pointed out including players like Markakis, is that there have been no difference making players that were able to take up the slack, and the core members weren't ready to take it on themselves for others that faltered, so all of them struggled at once.

In the meantime you can rebuild and restructure your farm system so when some core and supplemental players leave, you have their replacements waiting. And if some of those replacements don't pan out, you can always extend the core or supplemental players, but you have options.

[Dipper9]

BTW, not trying to make it sound like I am behind AM...I have been saying for a while not that he isn't aggressive or creative..That he takes too long and is too conservative.

He isn't doing what it takes to win in this division.

Agreed.

Being against MacPhail and WITH Trea are two wildly different scenarios and never the paths shall meet! :laughlol:

[SilentJames]

You have players in there that you don't worry about faltering. If you have difference making players in there to supplement, they'll take the slack from the core.

In the meantime you can rebuild and restructure your farm system so when some core and supplemental players leave, you have their replacements waiting. And if some of those replacements don't pan out, you can always extend the core or supplemental players, but you have options.

Yes, Carlos Lee did wonders for the Astros.

[waroriole]

What you are failing to understand is that the Orioles farm system has a very steep drop-off outside of that core.

Haven't you been watching? what happens when the core falters and no one is there to back them up?

I think you already know the answer to this.

[JTrea81]

Yes, Carlos Lee did wonders for the Astros.

The warning signs were there for Lee. He was 32 when he signed his deal, and he performed for the prime years he had left. Now he's in his subprime years.

Nobody is advocating (at least I'm not) to go acquire players that will have the majority of their contract be subprime years...

Prince Fielder for instance, will likely decline around age 32. He's 26 now. So you trade for him and you sign him to a 5-6 year extension for 25 million per season, similar to the Howard extension. So the majority of his years under contract, you are getting his best production.

Those are the kind of deals I am advocating for.

However, it is going to have to be Angelos that pushes for something like that because MacPhail has never spent that kind of money and likely won't.