Rumor: O's in formal negotiations with Buck Showalter

[El Gordo]

True,I am not sure Andy wants Showalter at the warehouse.:laughlol:.

Why do you think this? From stuff you've heard, or just your conjecture? My conjecture is that AM has been trying to clear dead wood from the organization but since a lot of that dead wood has long term ties to PA, it has been raising a stink. I would think having an outside objective POV, like Showalter can provide, would be an asset to AM.

[Hooded Viper]

This is probably true, but the dynamics will change for sure. A strong personality from the manager can certainly affect the goings-on at all levels in a way that is not offensive to the GM. It's called creative tension and it's a good thing that exists between strong-willed but respectful professionals.

There's no reason a good owner/manager/gm/scouting director etc., can't all contribute up and down the chain of command as long as they all know their appropriate place. Even PA could if he knows the difference between contributing and co-opting the role of your baseball professionals (which he's not shown any feel for, of course).

I agree with this but each person has to do their job, which eliminates any thoughts of Buck reviewing all the minor league teams and players.

[hatepaste]

Why do you think this? From stuff you've heard, or just your conjecture? My conjecture is that AM has been trying to clear dead wood from the organization but since a lot of that dead wood has long term ties to PA, it has been raising a stink. I would think having an outside objective POV, like Showalter can provide, would be an asset to AM.

No matter who comes in, Wedge or Showalter, that's an asset according to your definition.

All of this comes from the tweets/news reports out there that Angelos wants Showalter and AM wants Wedge.

I have no problem with PA stepping in on this one if that is truly the case. Good chance AM is done after the contract is over, the next manager most likely outlasts AM, I think.

[LookinUp]

I agree with this but each person has to do their job, which eliminates any thoughts of Buck reviewing all the minor league teams and players.

I don't see any reason to think he'd be "watching/reviewing" our minor league teams this year. I understand the idea in theory, but not based on the reports about his actual negotiation.

I do think he'll have heavy influence though once he's hired. He will not be an empty chair in the meeting room.

[hatepaste]

I personally think Buck should spend some time at Boog's because the last sandwich I got there wasn't that good (and it's not like he was the best to begin with).

[section18]

I would like him on the field before the break. ASAP. Managing against his old team in Texas this weekend. I'd like him to get a feel for the team and see how the clubhouse is and hopefully he can give AM some input on any deals he will be working on leading up to the All - Star break and prior to the trade deadline. He can also decide during the break which coaches he may not want to keep although he'll probably wait until the end of the season.

[Mackus]

I would like him on the field before the break. ASAP. Managing against his old team in Texas this weekend. I'd like him to get a feel for the team and see how the clubhouse is and hopefully he can give AM some input on any deals he will be working on leading up to the All - Star break and prior to the trade deadline. He can also decide during the break which coaches he may not want to keep although he'll probably wait until the end of the season.

I think basing anything we do in terms of roster maneuvers or trades on the first impressions that Buck gets over a weekend series before the All Star Break is an utterly horrible idea. That's similar to the rash judgements that some of the more foolhearty posters around here make about players after seeing them once.

I really think people are overstating the impact Showalter will make on the organization. I think he'll be a fine choice for manager, but I don't think he's going to bring in this unique and fresh perspective and see huge holes in this team and organization that Andy doesn't already see himself. Its not like there is a ton of mystery as to why we're struggling so much.

[frankpembleton]

Perlozzo = Mazilli = Trembley = Showalter, give or take a few games in the standings.

Do people honestly believe a change in the manager is going to amount to more than a few games here or there over the course of the season? All of these guys have a basic understanding of the game not too far from the understanding that Joe Torre has of the game of baseball. We completely overate the impact of a manager in baseball. They are all pretty interchangeable and do similar things. I'm fairly certain Juan Samuel could guide the Yankees to the playoffs this year.

We need good players and we need a GM/Ownership combination that can make that happen. The rest of it is just window dressing. Teams with good players make the playoffs.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Perlozzo = Mazilli = Trembley = Showalter, give or take a few games in the standings.

Do people honestly believe a change in the manager is going to amount to more than a few games here or there over the course of the season? All of these guys have a basic understanding of the game not too far from the understanding that Joe Torre has of the game of baseball. We completely overate the impact of a manager in baseball. They are all pretty interchangeable and do similar things. I'm fairly certain Juan Samuel could guide the Yankees to the playoffs this year.

We need good players and we need a GM/Ownership combination that can make that happen. The rest of it is just window dressing. Teams with good players make the playoffs.

They also need managers who can put those players in the best positions to succeed and win games to make the playoffs.

[byrdz]

Glad to see we'll be most likely getting Showalter!

Do people still fax? I knew AM had been accused of being slow, but seriously, it's 2010.

Oh...hold on a second....someone is paging me.

:laughlol::wedge:

I see people at work using the fax machine. It really annoys me with all of the technology these days. Ultimately it's more work!

[TonySoprano]

Perlozzo = Mazilli = Trembley = Showalter, give or take a few games in the standings.

Do people honestly believe a change in the manager is going to amount to more than a few games here or there over the course of the season? All of these guys have a basic understanding of the game not too far from the understanding that Joe Torre has of the game of baseball. We completely overate the impact of a manager in baseball. They are all pretty interchangeable and do similar things. I'm fairly certain Juan Samuel could guide the Yankees to the playoffs this year.

Would you say then that Perlozzo = Mazilli = Trembley = Showalter = Weaver?

[frankpembleton]

Would you say then that Perlozzo = Mazilli = Trembley = Showalter = Weaver?

I love Earl. He was obviously ahead of his time. His tactics showed he knew things about platooning, getting on base, sac bunting, and leverage before the stuff became popular in the sabermetrically-inclined baseball world. He was more fun to watch, certainly, than any of those guys. Still, Earl couldn't have done anything with Orioles of the last 13 years.

Could Dave Trembley have been a "Hall of Fame" manager given the talent that Earl Weaver was provided with over the course of 20 years? Perhaps...

I just don't think a "replacement level" manager provides that many more opportunities for wins than a "great" manager. And for a team like the Orioles, nowhere near contention, it's not something that really matters.

[frankpembleton]

You're not too far off as far as this particular team goes. However, I do think Showalter can have an impact on how the players on his team play the game and approach their jobs. Look no further than the opposing dugout tonight to see a fine example of just this.

Even though I like the idea of him not taking over until next season, the advantage to him taking over now is that he can begin to instill this approach and methods now. By him taking over now, the players who you know will be back next season can acclimate themselves to his style now as opposed to the shell shock they'd surely experience next Spring.

I've heard/read that Showalter has a good eye for talent and that he's good at setting up a roster. That, in my mind, is one of the things that set Weaver apart from other managers. He had a great eye for talent, and he knew how to get the best out of limited players such as Benny Ayala and John Lowenstein.

I'm sure you're approaching this from the viewpoint that the difference between a good manager and a bad one is at most maybe 5 wins (and that may be a stretch). Well, even if it is only three games, that's three wins I didn't have before. For some team those three wins could be the difference between being in the playoffs and watching the playoffs on TV.

Yeah, can't argue with anything here, really. I don't mind Buck coming on at all. More power to him - seems like a good guy. I just don't think it really matters who we put in there, particularly at this point in the "rebuild."

[BlackWillow]

Perlozzo = Mazilli = Trembley = Showalter, give or take a few games in the standings.

Definitely. Anyone who doesn't believe that has never managed people in a high performance work environment. When you demand performance, reward success and crush mediocrity, you will find yourself in a winni g environment.

[Boy Howdy]

I bet most if not all of the coaching staff stays for the rest of the year. He might bring in one coach, but I bet there will be few changes until the offseason.

For a variety of reasons (i.e. availablity or lack thereof of guys he may want, tendency to respect guys families and careers mid-season, etc...), this is how things typically go down.

Showalter's never taken over a club during the season, however.

I agree that a couple coaching changes before year end would be the maximum, but I'd expect significant turnover before spring training.