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Juan Samuel Isn't Considering Dropping Matusz From Rotation


oriolefaith

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Yeah, but he's Carnac The Magnificent and can foretell that he will be fine his next start. Don't you know better than to question SG???:eek::laughlol:

Probably no more than everyone around here not knowing better than to argue with the human brick wall that is you.

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I don't disagree but the vibe I was getting from SG and some others was it would be simply out of the question to even consider sending down Matusz this season. I don't see where he should be treated any differently than Bergeson or Tillman. If he needs to be sent down at some point so be it.

It is out of the question...because there is no chance he ends up being as bad as he needs to be to get sent down.

The only way he pitches in the minors this season is on a rehab start.

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I don't disagree but the vibe I was getting from SG and some others was it would be simply out of the question to even consider sending down Matusz this season. I don't see where he should be treated any differently than Bergeson or Tillman. If he needs to be sent down at some point so be it.

I agree with you that Matusz is not immune from being sent to the minors if he continues to pitch poorly. But to put this in perspective, Matusz's ERA has been below 5.00 most of the season, and crept up to 5.21 after yesterday's debacle. Bergesen has a 6.37 ERA and his low point for the year was 5.45. Tillman's ERA is 5.64 and it was 8.40 when he was sent to the minors.

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It is out of the question...because there is no chance he ends up being as bad as he needs to be to get sent down.

The only way he pitches in the minors this season is on a rehab start.

I don't know how you can say that because on a good team like the Yankees, Sox or Rays he probably would already be demoted to the minors.

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I don't know how you can say that because on a good team like the Yankees, Sox or Rays he probably would already be demoted to the minors.

Who knows...but those teams are in position to win a title. We aren't..Thus the reason why he should be in the rotation. Same with your boy Tillman, no matter how out of place he looks in the majors right now.

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Who knows...but those teams are in position to win a title. We aren't..Thus the reason why he should be in the rotation. Same with your boy Tillman, no matter how out of place he looks in the majors right now.

Yeah, he really looked out of place in the majors when he was no-hitting the Rangers through 6 innings his last start! :laughlol:

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Yeah, he really looked out of place in the majors when he was no-hitting the Rangers through 6 innings his last start! :laughlol:

I know you put a lot of emphasis in one start or 1 at bat or whatever but here in the real world, people look at larger sample sizes.

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Who knows...but those teams are in position to win a title. We aren't..Thus the reason why he should be in the rotation. Same with your boy Tillman, no matter how out of place he looks in the majors right now.
Yeah, he really looked out of place in the majors when he was no-hitting the Rangers through 6 innings his last start! :laughlol:

Old#5Fan, you are missing the point. SG is saying that we need to stick with the young guys, and not jerk them around based on 1-2 bad starts. And he'd say the same thing about Tillman if he gets racked the next time out.

I agree wholeheartedly with SG that we need to stop overreacting every time one of our young guys has a great start or a terrible one. Or even two or three in a row. These guys need to take their lumps and learn from it. Obviously you can only let things get so bad, but we are nowhere near that point with Matusz, and Tillman and Bergesen should get plenty of rope, too.

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Old#5Fan, you are missing the point. SG is saying that we need to stick with the young guys, and not jerk them around based on 1-2 bad starts. And he'd say the same thing about Tillman if he gets racked the next time out.

I agree wholeheartedly with SG that we need to stop overreacting every time one of our young guys has a great start or a terrible one. Or even two or three in a row. These guys need to take their lumps and learn from it. Obviously you can only let things get so bad, but we are nowhere near that point with Matusz, and Tillman and Bergesen should get plenty of rope, too.

True, but I was just reading a Sun article that said Matusz's mechanics are horrible now as his front shoulder is flying open too soon causing him to be all over the place. It seems that Tillman was having similar issues - low velocity, mechanics issues and was sent down for it. Now, he seems to have improved since doing so. Perhaps Matusz should be sent down for a start or two. I would say definitely so if he gets hammered again his next start. Why mess around when his velocity is at 88-89 and his mechanics are awful?

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I don't know how you can say that because on a good team like the Yankees, Sox or Rays he probably would already be demoted to the minors.
David Price finished last year, his 2nd year, with a 4.42 ERA.

On July 4th of last year he pitched 1.1 innings, giving up 3 hits and 6 runs, with FIVE walks!

Three starts later on July 25th he lasted 3 innings, gave up 9 hits and 6 runs. His ERA went all the way up to 5.60, it wouldn't go below 5.00 until August 23rd.

Price started the Allstar Game this year. Now I know Matusz isn't Price, but he is in the same ballpark.

Its time to lay off Matusz, who is just a young pitcher who is figuring things out. We may forget it but Matusz is still a rookie.

Please read my previous post. This is just one example, and I bet I could find more to prove you wrong.

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Please read my previous post. This is just one example, and I bet I could find more to prove you wrong.

I am not wrong and neither are you. There are probably plenty examples both ways. I have already mentioned Tillman who seems to have benefited greatly by being sent down.

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I am not wrong and neither are you. There are probably plenty examples both ways. I have already mentioned Tillman who seems to have benefited greatly by being sent down.

No, you are completely wrong. You made a blanket statement about how good teams would send down a pitcher struggling like Matusz. And I showed you example of one of those teams handling a pitcher in the absolutely opposite way, and to the pitchers benefit.

You can't claim you are correct when you are in fact wrong. If you want to hedge, than don't make declarative statements.

A pitcher of Matusz skills is going to dominate AAA pitching, and that will not help him in the least. A pitcher like Tillman needed to learn new pitches against lesser hitters. Matusz has 4 major league level pitches. They are different pitchers.

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No, you are completely wrong. You made a blanket statement about how good teams would send down a pitcher struggling like Matusz. And I showed you example of one of those teams handling a pitcher in the absolutely opposite way, and to the pitchers benefit.

You can't claim you are correct when you are in fact wrong. If you want to hedge, than don't make declarative statements.

A pitcher of Matusz skills is going to dominate AAA pitching, and that will not help him in the least. A pitcher like Tillman needed to learn new pitches against lesser hitters. Matusz has 4 major league level pitches. They are different pitchers.

Balderdash. I was trying to be nice to you but if you want to act like a pompous you know what - I can play that game as well. For example, you obviously either didnt' watch that putrid pitching peformance or have no clue what you were observing, because I CAN GUARANTEE YOU if Matusz pitched that horribly he would even get hammered at Norfolk.

Simply stated, an 88 MPH fastball in the middle of the plate will also get tatooed by good Triple A hitters as well. So don't try to feed me that baloney. Save it for someone else. An 88 MPH fastball is at best a borderline major league level pitch, and you should know that. If you don't believe me just look at how badly Hobgood is getting ragged on for throwing at comparable velocity, and he's just in A ball.

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It seems to me people are arguing with Old#5Fan just out of habit. It is easy for me to imagine circumstances where Matusz has to be sent to the minors to get back on track. I just don't think that two bad starts constitute those circumstances. But for argument's sake, let's just say Matusz has three more starts in a row that resemble the last two. In that circumstance, I'd have to think quite seriously about letting him work out his problems in AAA. We just aren't there right now, and hopefully never will be.

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