If it's true that Showalter wasn't AM's pick...

[VTmook213]

Until Tony's expose, all the things about the mismanagement of the organization were only "assumptions."

You folks will do anything to believe that the FO is a perfect machine eh?

MSK

I don't even know why I bother to post here anymore.

Can't post anything other than cynical, negative, pessimistic crap otherwise you're labeled a fanboi, clueless, naive, etc.

For the record, I found nothing in Tony's expose to be surprising. Well, other than the bit about why Stockstill is still around (getting people out of trouble in the Dominican was it?). This has nothing to do with how wretched the Orioles are, or how dysfunctional the FO is.

It has to do with people taking a rumor that Showalter wasn't AM's first choice and then jumping to conclusions that:

a) AM didn't want Showalter

b) that AM didn't want Showalter BECAUSE Showalter would be too controlling

c) that Angelos FORCED AM to hire Showalter

d) that there is now a huge rift between Angelos and AM because of this and AM is on his way out the door

... and then repeating all of this as fact. And should anyone question those conclucions, they're labeled as an apologist. It's infuriating.

Some days I can't decide which is worse - watching the Orioles or posting on here.

:angryfire:

/endrant

[SilentJames]

So what. I mean, I am sure that owners and GMs often favor different people for different reasons. For the record, I don't think Wedge would have been a bad choice but Showalter was just a better choice.

It came out that AM preferred Wedge and then everyone started speculating and certain camps used that to further promote their own tired agendas. But whatever, this is what the internet is.

At the end of the day it really doesn't matter all that much. I sincerely doubt that the difference in opinion was anything more than personal preference and the the "rift" that some people are trying to find really isn't there.

[24fps]

If AM didn't want BS and PA over ruled him. AM would have resigned.

I doubt it. AM's not looking too good as a GM right now what with the historically bad etc., etc...

Secondly, I think it's highly likely that quitters have a much harder time getting re-hired, not to mention ones with a track record of being difficult with ownership.

[MemorialStadKid]

It's interesting how you and a few other posters now basically equate "some good, some bad" with being a pathetic, little naïve apologist.

Funny how you've somehow confused me with other people. I am not the reactionary, short-fused AM hater. I simply don't like his methods and his lack of success with the team I love.

I do get upset when folks still keep saying he is going to turn the ship around when all indications show that he either doesn't know how to fix the team OR is unwilling to take the necessary risks to get us over the top.

When or where did I call everyone else a naive apologist?

MSK

[scOtt]

Funny how you've somehow confused me with other people. I am not the reactionary, short-fused AM hater. I simply don't like his methods and his lack of success with the team I love.

I do get upset when folks still keep saying he is going to turn the ship around when all indications show that he either doesn't know how to fix the team OR is unwilling to take the necessary risks to get us over the top.

When or where did I call everyone else a naive apologist?

MSK

You folks will do anything to believe that the FO is a perfect machine eh?

MSK

Right there.

[SilentJames]

1996 - vetoed trades that would have kept the O's out of the playoffs.

1999 - signed Albert Belle without Frank Wren's involvement.

There are some others that I am drawing blanks on.

Overruled B/F to keep Roberts in Baltimore

But if you are honestly going to say that PA's meddling is a good thing then you are crazy and are changing opinions to fit current situations.

PA meddling nine times out of ten is a bad thing. Every once and awhile it works out.

Moreover, I really think people want there to be a controversy and are desperately trying to find one.

[lovetoaster]

I love how we have people here that apparently know exactly how this went down. Why have we been speculating for so long when today we have people that knew everything all along?

/sarcasm

I am not doubting anything Tony said, but sources have been wrong before. there are probably only a handful of people that know the specifics and I doubt any of them are commenting on this board. So to me, anything else is pretty much an opinion and up for debate. And "debate" involves give and take, and being open to other peoples thoughts. Not just assuming you know all of the details; because very few probably do.

I personally don't care right now. I think we have the right guy for the job, and I am not going to complain about how it came about. I'll worry about that kind of stuff when the people involved actually talk about the process. Like maybe after the press conference.

[scOtt]

I personally don't care right now. I think we have the right guy for the job, and I am not going to complain about how it came about. I'll worry about that kind of stuff when the people involved actually talk about the process. Like maybe after the press conference.

This. :happy dance:

VATech, great minds...

[MemorialStadKid]

I don't even know why I bother to post here anymore.

Can't post anything other than cynical, negative, pessimistic crap otherwise you're labeled a fanboi, clueless, naive, etc.

/endrant

Save the histrionics.

The reality is this, if you don't come here and only talk about:

a) statistics

b) How we should all continue to be patient for AM's plan to actually start working

c) how anyone who dares criticize the front office is a "negative" person

then you get thrown into the pot and assumed to be in the "hate" camp and that's not a fair assessment.

Before Tony's expose, anytime any of us - Trea, SG, O#5F - said anything about how rotten this FO was, then the wrath of the OH gods of positivity would rain down upon us.

Then the expose is posted, and folks were either 1) surprised that things were this bad (which goes to show how the sheep-think works) or 2) acted like they knew it was this bad all along (which is more sheep-think).

In any case, this all comes down to one phrase: benefit of the doubt. Do they deserve it?

I don't think so.

MSK

[flashjordnk]

HUh? Not sure what this has to do with what i am saying...Just not understanding what you are asking.

I'm saying a lot of these reports might have to do with Buck posturing for more control that he knew he might never get.

I imagine AM was pretty clear abut his part and responsibilities within the organization. But that doesn't mean Buck didn't ASK FOR MORE.

So the reports leak that he's asked for more responsibility it doesn't really mean much. Using Machado as an example of how he could ask for the moon but never get it.

Just saying you're being as speculative about everything as anyone on the opposite side of your opinion.

[MemorialStadKid]

Here:

Still having trouble understanding the words have meaning and consequence I see...

Here we go.

That IS NOT THE SAME THING as calling someone a naive apologist.

And of course, you miss out on the clear points I was making.

That's your game.

MSK

[lovetoaster]

I'm saying a lot of these reports might have to do with Buck posturing for more control that he knew he might never get.

I imagine AM was pretty clear abut his part and responsibilities within the organization. But that doesn't mean Buck didn't ASK FOR MORE.

So the reports leak that he's asked for more responsibility it doesn't really mean much. Using Machado as an example of how he could ask for the moon but never get it.

Jackpot...

[mcgraw238]

Yup, me and the other three people who simultaneously picked out the same quote. Or the folks that have hit me with positive rep over this. Or the folks who have PM'ed me over this. We're all wrong and you're right. You're outstanding.

PS.. How is resolving that bet with Jim going? I see you still haven't paid up almost 6 months later. Still recovering from your tragedy or have you been too busy chasing a girl who doesn't like you or too busy contemplating how the world is full of idiots because they don't ponder politics and world issues like you? Yeh, I know this is mean, but I don't care. I'll be candid. I don't like you. At all...

You must spread Reputation around before giving it to vatech1994 again.

[MemorialStadKid]

What is funny is that you really believe this is what has happened on this board. The actual history has very little in common with your vision of it.

BTW, I love how you've resumed your air of superiority about how much more clearly you see things than most of the rest of us even though you were TOTALLY off base about Showalter. Just completely and totally wrong after being out in front of how AM would screw it up in multiple threads including a couple you started. Don't let the little fact that you looked like a fool on that keep you from continuing to act superior to us "sheep".

Actually since you're the lord of master of observations, you might notice that earlier today I said that AM has proved me wrong and I hope he continues to do so.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2221347#post2221347

I have no problem admitting I am wrong if it means that the Orioles will improve. I have no problem saying that I have no faith in MacPhail to turn this team around, BUT if he does it, I will not only say I respect him but I will admit I was wrong for criticizing him.

I am not taking any air of superiority other than to say that the folks who were "negative" were considered crazy or trolls before the expose. Many of the things we talked about were confirmed by Tony's writing.

That's not superiority, its simply being correct in our collective condemnation.

MSK

[MemorialStadKid]

Yup, me and the other three people who simultaneously picked out the same quote. Or the folks that have hit me with positive rep over this. Or the folks who have PM'ed me over this. We're all wrong and you're right. You're outstanding.

PS.. How is resolving that bet with Jim going? I see you still haven't paid up almost 6 months later. Still recovering from your tragedy or have you been too busy chasing a girl who doesn't like you or too busy contemplating how the world is full of idiots because they don't ponder politics and world issues like you? Yeh, I know this is mean, but I don't care. I'll be candid. I don't like you. At all...

Doing high-fives online on a message board because you've supposedly "gotten" me really makes no difference at all once we get up from the computer and... I dunno... go outside or something.

Now, I didn't chase a girl who didn't like me. It was a funny post that I shared with people in the hangout board. And for someone who "hates" me, you sure spend an awful lot of time keeping up on all my activities.

Awesome.

MSK