If it's true that Showalter wasn't AM's pick...

[VTmook213]

Save the histrionics.

The reality is this, if you don't come here and only talk about:

a) statistics

b) How we should all continue to be patient for AM's plan to actually start working

c) how anyone who dares criticize the front office is a "negative" person

then you get thrown into the pot and assumed to be in the "hate" camp and that's not a fair assessment.

Before Tony's expose, anytime any of us - Trea, SG, O#5F - said anything about how rotten this FO was, then the wrath of the OH gods of positivity would rain down upon us.

Then the expose is posted, and folks were either 1) surprised that things were this bad (which goes to show how the sheep-think works) or 2) acted like they knew it was this bad all along (which is more sheep-think).

In any case, this all comes down to one phrase: benefit of the doubt. Do they deserve it?

I don't think so.

MSK

Funny how you don't think it's a fair assessment to be throw into the "hate camp", but you have no problem throwing people into the "naive apologists" camp.

I think what frustrates me the most is that even when we should be excited about Showalter's hiring, people still find ways to make that reflect poorly on whomever their current favorite target is.

[El Gordo]

I don't even know why I bother to post here anymore.

Can't post anything other than cynical, negative, pessimistic crap otherwise you're labeled a fanboi, clueless, naive, etc.

For the record, I found nothing in Tony's expose to be surprising. Well, other than the bit about why Stockstill is still around (getting people out of trouble in the Dominican was it?). This has nothing to do with how wretched the Orioles are, or how dysfunctional the FO is.

It has to do with people taking a rumor that Showalter wasn't AM's first choice and then jumping to conclusions that:

a) AM didn't want Showalter

b) that AM didn't want Showalter BECAUSE Showalter would be too controlling

c) that Angelos FORCED AM to hire Showalter

d) that there is now a huge rift between Angelos and AM because of this and AM is on his way out the door

... and then repeating all of this as fact. And should anyone question those conclucions, they're labeled as an apologist. It's infuriating.

Some days I can't decide which is worse - watching the Orioles or posting on here.

:angryfire:

/endrant

Very well put and I couldn't agree more. It's much more fun to be part of a virtual lynch mob than it is to be reasonable.:angryfire:

[El Gordo]

I doubt it. AM's not looking too good as a GM right now what with the historically bad etc., etc...

Secondly, I think it's highly likely that quitters have a much harder time getting re-hired, not to mention ones with a track record of being difficult with ownership.

Everyone in the business knows PA's rep. They would applaud AM if he resigned. He is only looking bad here, he is well regarded in the industry.

[MemorialStadKid]

I think what frustrates me the most is that even when we should be excited about Showalter's hiring, people still find ways to make that reflect poorly on whomever their current favorite target is.

I am excited. I've been posting this news on twitter and facebook.

I didn't start this mess today. I answered the post idea and then I was attacked.

MSK

[mrbig1]

As I have said from day one. A.M. is a puppet and Peter Angelos pulls the string. Now do you guys believe me?

[scOtt]

This is true. MSK is an innocent victim in all things that occur to him. Bad stuff just happens to him over and over again for no good reason. I'd link to the Charlie Brown song if I could, but I'm at work. Poor guy...

Music is my life.

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[24fps]

Everyone in the business knows PA's rep. They would applaud AM if he resigned. He is only looking bad here, he is well regarded in the industry.

Applaud for what? For leaving in a snit because he didn't get his way? The other owners may not like PA personally, but they all understand the prerogatives of ownership which includes getting their way whenever they want even if it means bruising the feelings of well-regarded but uppity GM's.

Neither of us has any way of knowing for certain, but I would not be at all surprised if AM were considerably less well-regarded today than he was three years ago. If true, he's got a year-and-a-half to fix that, and I think he would be a fool not to recognize his current situation.

[weams]

... how does that make you feel?

Poll to come.

I've been told he was Andy's first choice amongs those interviewed.

[maudibjr]

Yeah for Meh!

That should be in every poll.

[ledzepp8]

BTW, this was one thing that some of us speculated on and now others are whining that we were bringing things like this up. Irony is delicious.

Remind us again, when did it stop being speculation?

[theobird]

I really don't care if he was AM's first choice or not. I consider Buck Showalter to be a much better baseball man than AM, so I am very happy to have him. And I also hope, and strongly suspect, that Buck negotiated his way into considerable personell power. This is a RED LETTER day for the fans of the Baltimore Orioles, IMO.

[Maverick Hiker]

As I have said from day one. A.M. is a puppet and Peter Angelos pulls the string. Now do you guys believe me?

No, sorry I don't buy that. I believe that Angelos gave Andy full power and A.M. has been pulling the wrong strings.

I was a huge fan of Andy MacPhail when he came here and I was fairly certain that he would turn this team around, based on his past history. I felt he would at least make the O's a .500 team by now.

But now when I see this team I can only think of one word to describe A.M's tenure here: Failure. There have been a few good trades and draft choices but we should not be on the verge challenging the 1962 Mets for most losses at this point. The bad outweighs the good.

Andy MacPhail may have to be let go. I still am not ready to see that and I hope it doesn't come to that but as he said last year we have to judge by wins and losses.

I grew up enjoying the great Baltimore Orioles teams of Brooks and Boog, Weaver and Palmer, when the O's were the best team in MLB. It is very sad and frustrating to me to see the present situation with the O's. I hope and pray that Buck Showalter can be the one who can turn this team around.

[foxfield]

Have not read the thread yet...but cannot answer the poll. There should be an answer that reflects that two very methodical men took their time to reach an agreement. I realize that your premise is that AM did NOT want Buck. There is no possible outcome that is good for the Orioles if this is the case and Buck is the new manager of the Orioles in spite of AM.

I think AM wants him and got him. I think this is a good thing and the answer for that was not an option.

Of course I also thought this was the year we rebounded from the bottom, so there is that too!

[ledzepp8]

Here we go.

That IS NOT THE SAME THING as calling someone a naive apologist.

And of course, you miss out on the clear points I was making.

That's your game.

MSK

No it's exactly the same thing.

By the way, where's that list you're supposed to be compiling?

[olehippi]

Changing managers won't make a difference this season....and possibly next season either.....UNLESS.....Angelos opens his vault for some FA's and MacPhail makes some miraculous trades.