What to do with Matusz???

[Dr. FLK]

Yeah. Guys w/ four MLB-level pitches generally are.

Name me one guy who ever had 4 bad starts in a row during his first full season and ended up developing into a serviceable starter...one!

[RShack]

Name me one guy who ever had 4 bad starts in a row during his first full season and ended up developing into a serviceable starter...one!

Yeah, well, show me one elephant that doesn't like ketchup... just one!

[Captain_Cool007]

I have not given up on him, I hope he figures it out. If I had to make a prognostication (guess) about his future I see him as a bullpen guy. That being said I believe he will be a starter for the next couple of years. My only thought in starting this thread was to get opinions on whether folks thought it would be a good idea to spend the next month at AAA. I believe it would. Most believe he should stay in the ML rotation. My secondary question was for how long if he continues to be totally ineffective (like his last 4 starts). Most folks say keep him up no matter what. I have a problem with that as it continues the culture of losing. I'm hoping that Showater does not accept lolsses as easily as the OH.

I see where your coming from, and he does in fact look pretty bullpen quality these days. But he does show glimpses of being a heck of alot more. His Curve/Change combo is nasty. Sure he cant control it these days, but I think that is just good old confidence/mechainical issues. And honestly is it good for his confidence to just toss him down to AAA? Again I understand the frusteration, but I would rather struggle with a 24 year old with potential then a journeyman we pick up to take his place

[Moose Milligan]

I realize that this will make no difference at all, but have the naysayers actually looked at Brian's pitching log this year. He has had a six game streak of solid-to-good starts and a six of seven game streak of solid-to-good starts. Even with his recent struggles, Matusz has turned in a solid performance in 13 of 21 starts (62%).

As a comparison, Arrieta has had 5 solid performances in 9 starts (55%), Tillman has had 3 solid of 6 (50%), and Bergesen is 5 of 16 (31%).

In other words, the general consensus that the negative reactions are overboard is correct. Matusz is pitching about the way you'd expect for a first year guy. Again, I know this won't make a difference, but I wanted to do the research for myself.

Yeah, well...that's like your opinion, man.

[Old#5fan]

Not to quote myself here...but it seems the comp which seems particularly accurate has gone unreferenced.

For those of you who think Matusz has been bad lately how about we throw a few more stats out there.

In the month of July 2004 Bedard/July 2004 Matusz:

35 innings, 38 K's, 15 BB's, 41 hits, age 25 Born 1979

20 innings, 21 K's, 16 BB's, 21 hits age 23 Born 1987

Hmmm, me thinks some people are ready to write a guy off because they expect too much. Dude is 23 years old. He's got a long way to go before he's going to be consistent. In the same way other aces for the Orioles that have been groomed have done.

What the heck does Bedard have to do with Matusz?

They are two entirely different pitchers with the only thing in common is both are lefties. Bedard has a fastball with much more velocity and movement and a devastating curve. Matusz has mediocre stuff that requires top command in hitting spots. In other words, Bedard can often get away with bad pitches left in the middle of the plate and Matusz almost never will be able to do so.

Even when Matusz keeps the ball down I have seen him getting raked all too often. You don't see that with Bedard not now nor when he was a younger pitcher. His biggest issue was putting away hitters and pitch counts.

[Darren33]

for all the so smart posters to answer my simple question:

At one point do you stop sending Matusz out evey 5 days in the O's rotation.

If he has 4 more consecutive bad starts giving him an 8 start stretch with an ERA over 14.... would you send him out again???

I suspect Showater will have less patience than OH posters.

I guess the Braves were really regretting their decision not to send Tom Glavine down to the minors when he had 4 awful starts in a row in May of his 1st full year too. You know, because he turned out to be nothing than a situational lefty too...right?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=glavito02&t=p&year=1988

[enchiridion]

You can keep writing this, but you're wrong and it just makes you look bad. His fastball is just slightly above average (or even avg when his velocity is 89ish rather than 91/92 like last night), but his curveball and change up are well above average. I've seen both be plus pitches. His slider/cutter is also slightly above average.

You can only have good "stuff" if you throw 95+

Just like your worth as a hitter is measured solely in homeruns!

[Moose Milligan]

You can only have good "stuff" if you throw 95+

Just like your worth as a hitter is measured solely in homeruns!

MORE POWER!!!! RRAAAARRRHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

<img src = "http://nncj-kyoto.up.seesaa.net/image/tooltime.jpg">

[Old#5fan]

You can keep writing this, but you're wrong and it just makes you look bad. His fastball is just slightly above average (or even avg when his velocity is 89ish rather than 91/92 like last night), but his curveball and change up are well above average. I've seen both be plus pitches. His slider/cutter is also slightly above average.

I know this won't matter. You'll just spout something else that isn't true and isn't back up by anything rational so we don't need to continue the discussion. I just wanted to set the record straight.

Well, you are just another guy who apparently doesn't have a mind of his own and refuses to trust his own eyes. Apparently, you have been "brainwashed" into believing how great his stuff is when the results and my own eyes tell me that just isn't accurate. If Matusz "stuff" is so above average how come even some of his pitches that are located down in the zone are getting routinely hammered? Did you see any of his past couple outings? If he doesn't suddenly develop pinpoint command, or at least way, WAY better command than he is showing, I think he could and should spend most of next year at Norfolk (if necessary) to get to where he needs to be.

[Frobby]

Well, you are just another guy who apparently doesn't have a mind of his own and refuses to trust his own eyes. Apparently, you have been "brainwashed" into believing how great his stuff is when the results and my own eyes tell me that just isn't accurate. If Matusz "stuff" is so above average how come even some of his pitches that are located down in the zone are getting routinely hammered? Did you see any of his past couple outings?

IMO, Matusz's problem right now is that he's losing his release point from time to time. He was excellent for 3 innings last night, then didn't seem to have any idea where the ball was going in the 4th. I'm not really sure why this is happening; it has happened several times recently. You can see it coming when all of a sudden the pitches he is trying to throw on the outside corner are 4-6 inches off the plate.

I don't think it is a long-term problem, but it's definitely been a problem throughout July. It doesn't seem like it should be that hard to fix, so I really don't get it.

[Old#5fan]

IMO, Matusz's problem right now is that he's losing his release point from time to time. He was excellent for 3 innings last night, then didn't seem to have any idea where the ball was going in the 4th. I'm not really sure why this is happening; it has happened several times recently. You can see it coming when all of a sudden the pitches he is trying to throw on the outside corner are 4-6 inches off the plate.

I don't think it is a long-term problem, but it's definitely been a problem throughout July. It doesn't seem like it should be that hard to fix, so I really don't get it.

I agree with your first paragraph 100% but not so sure about the second paragraph. I wondered why the heck Kranitz didn't come out way sooner than he did when Matusz was struggling so badly in that inning, especially if it is something not that hard to fix.

[Old#5fan]

I'm curious why you responded to 05F's post with this info. His post had nothing to do with mechanics. He was referring to stuff. Your post had nothing to do with stuff. It had to do with mechanics.

Do you believe that Matusz's stuff is average? I don't think you do, but maybe I'm wrong.

If it wasn't "average" he would be getting more people out even on less than perfect pitches. If you watch him his stuff isn't good enough unless the pitch is located nearly perfect. That is why he is walking so many people as he is trying to be so fine. Matusz doesn't trust his stuff for good reason, its not that good! I am not saying he cannot develop into a decent pitcher but his command needs to be Moyer like.

[Sports Guy]

Name me one guy who ever had 4 bad starts in a row during his first full season and ended up developing into a serviceable starter...one!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=glavito02&t=p&year=1988

Check out May.

Oh and in first cup of coffee, he had a bad stretch of 4 out of 5 and 5 out of 7 starts.

[Old#5fan]

I realize that this will make no difference at all, but have the naysayers actually looked at Brian's pitching log this year. He has had a six game streak of solid-to-good starts and a six of seven game streak of solid-to-good starts. Even with his recent struggles, Matusz has turned in a solid performance in 13 of 21 starts (62%).

As a comparison, Arrieta has had 5 solid performances in 9 starts (55%), Tillman has had 3 solid of 6 (50%), and Bergesen is 5 of 16 (31%).

In other words, the general consensus that the negative reactions are overboard is correct. Matusz is pitching about the way you'd expect for a first year guy. Again, I know this won't make a difference, but I wanted to do the research for myself.

62% is solid? :confused:I wish I had you grading my papers in school.:laughlol: :laughlol:

If he hadn't been bailed out by Patterson and Wiggy he would be leading the AL with 12 losses. I suppose that also shows how well he is doing eh? Last time I checked the goal is to win games not lose them, especially on a league leading pace!!

The fact is none of these youngsters are doing other than poorly this season, including Matusz. Continue to dwell in the land of delusion if you wish but posts like this show that is where you reside! I live in the real world.

[Sports Guy]

62% is solid? :confused:I wish I had you grading my papers in school.:laughlol: :laughlol:

If he hadn't been bailed out by Patterson and Wiggy he would be leading the AL with 12 losses. I suppose that also shows how well he is doing eh? Last time I checked the goal is to win games not lose them, especially on a league leading pace!!

The fact is none of these youngsters are doing other than poorly this season, including Matusz. Continue to dwell in the land of delusion if you wish but posts like this show that is where you reside! I live in the real world.

The difference is Matusz has a lot of peripherals that are very positives...I know you don't care about that and I know you don't understand that but again, that doesn't make them irrelevant.