state your case if we pick #2 in the 2011 draft

[eb45]

Jordan has his eye on a pudgy high school pitcher in South Dakota at #2.

Sil Opkram, isn't it?

[Stotle]

There are so many good players at the top of the board next year I'm not sure how to even start answering the question at this point.

[rhall]

I do think you are selling low on Cole and high on Purke. Burnett is basically a 2 pitch pitcher while Cole projects to have 3 plus or better pitches including a possible plus-plus FB.

Purke's issue for me is the lack of that overall velocity. When I saw him pitch, his FB touched 92 at the highest. Reports say he touches 94, but not when I saw him the last couple of times during the CWS. Even if it touches 94 at best, he just doesn't compare to Cole for me at all.

Fair enough. I recognize the lightning in Cole's arm. That's why I said I waffle back and forth (that and because it's so early). I think you might be optimistic in your projection of his changeup though. I haven't read anything about it being more than average in the future. Even an average change leads to an impressive arsenal, though. The upcoming season will help flesh things out, I'm sure.

Also, I fed the fire by acknowledging it as truth, but in this thread we may have overstated the bulldog/competitive fire difference between the two. Check out this glowing article about Cole's CWS performance.

[QBsILLEST1]

Fair enough. I recognize the lightning in Cole's arm. That's why I said I waffle back and forth (that and because it's so early). I think you might be optimistic in your projection of his changeup though. I haven't read anything about it being more than average in the future. Even an average change leads to an impressive arsenal, though. The upcoming season will help flesh things out, I'm sure.

Also, I fed the fire by acknowledging it as truth, but in this thread we may have overstated the bulldog/competitive fire difference between the two. Check out this glowing article about Cole's CWS performance.

Cole has improved the changeup this year ALOT. As the year went on, it seemed to get better and better. It is projected as a plus pitch and I have seen a few people actually consider it a plus pitch now. Read this article:

http://projectprospect.com/article/2010/06/19/college-world-series-scouting-preview

It desribes Cole as having an advanced feel for the pitch which he has improved greatly. Personally, I am more confident in that pitch than the inconsistent slider. But I am pretty confident that both pitches will be ironed out by the time he is ML ready. I have seen many instances where his changeup was more highly regarded than the slider.....

[rhall]

Cole has improved the changeup this year ALOT. As the year went on, it seemed to get better and better. It is projected as a plus pitch and I have seen a few people actually consider it a plus pitch now. Read this article:

http://projectprospect.com/article/2010/06/19/college-world-series-scouting-preview

It desribes Cole as having an advanced feel for the pitch which he has improved greatly. Personally, I am more confident in that pitch than the inconsistent slider. But I am pretty confident that both pitches will be ironed out by the time he is ML ready. I have seen many instances where his changeup was more highly regarded than the slider.....

Interesting... most of my knowledge regarding Cole was still from when he was coming out of HS as a guy with a big fastball and killer slider. It sounds like the changeup might have developed at the expense of the slider (although I know that a slider can be somewhat inconsistent in a HS arm and still be promoted as a plus pitch). It will be interesting to see this year if Cole can polish up that slider and change-up some more, gain more consistency, before he even reaches pro ball.

I'm hesitant to vote Cole because watching pitchers with recoil makes me cringe, but I'm being swayed. I said it could be done.

This will definitely be a more interesting college season to follow from a draft perspective.

[Stotle]

Why am I reading bout Cole's inconsistent slider? Everyone realizes he gets different bite and depth because he throws both a cutter and a slider, right? It may be confusing because there is only a 2-3mph difference, so if you aren't aware there are two different pitches it will look like he isn't getting consistent bite.

[QBsILLEST1]

Why am I reading bout Cole's inconsistent slider? Everyone realizes he gets different bite and depth because he throws both a cutter and a slider, right? It may be confusing because there is only a 2-3mph difference, so if you aren't aware there are two different pitches it will look like he isn't getting consistent bite.

Hmm...Well, I'll say this then, the slider I had seen in the Super Regionals(I think) was very inconsistent. I could tell it was a slider because of the shape and depth of the break. Some just didn't have the same type of bite, it looked to have rather "lazy" break if you will.

I also recall reading his slider was inconsistent during the season, so when I saw some lazier sliders, this is what I referred to. It has been so long I wish I could remember better exactly what I saw.

Regardless, this kid his my choice hands down. I used to be higher on Jungmann actually, but after really thinking it through, why bank on projection(risk) if the reward isn't much if any better than Cole's "now" stuff?....

[Ruzious]

I'd definitely take Cole over Purke. We've got a boatload of nice low 90's fastball pitchers. I want someone who intimidates batters with heat and still isn't 1 dimentional.

[Araqnid]

Ranked (based on who I want):

Cole

Rendon

Purke

Machado

Jungmann

I would really not at all care if we didn't sign Machado, because the chance at two of those players is almost literally a dream come true.

Plus, as already pointed out, we do have some depth at SS, and we just landed Narron.

[clapdiddy]

Since I'm not an expert on the draft, nor play one on TV, which starter looks to have the best mechanics and less stress on their arm? It seems that all of the guys who would be possibilities (Cole, Jungmann, Purke) all have #1 starter possibilities. I'm more interested in finding out which one will stay healthy.

[QBsILLEST1]

Since I'm not an expert on the draft, nor play one on TV, which starter looks to have the best mechanics and less stress on their arm? It seems that all of the guys who would be possibilities (Cole, Jungmann, Purke) all have #1 starter possibilities. I'm more interested in finding out which one will stay healthy.

All three have minor red flags, but in all honesty, I think none of the red flags are really death sentences. If I had to bet on 1 of them staying healthy, I'd say Cole. He has a big durable body, and his mechanics really aren't too bad.

IMO Purke's smallish frame, and his tendency to sling the ball with that devastating slider of his makes me think he has the best chance to get hurt.

Jungmann needs to make his stride more consistent but isn't in too bad of shape. He does have an unorthodox delivery though......

[clapdiddy]

All three have minor red flags, but in all honesty, I think none of the red flags are really death sentences. If I had to bet on 1 of them staying healthy, I'd say Cole. He has a big durable body, and his mechanics really aren't too bad.

IMO Purke's smallish frame, and his tendency to sling the ball with that devastating slider of his makes me think he has the best chance to get hurt.

Jungmann needs to make his stride more consistent but isn't in too bad of shape. He does have an unorthodox delivery though......

I have to admit, I'm the most intrigued with Cole. Having a true power-arm, flame-throwing starter makes me a bit giddy!

[H0smash]

There are so many good players at the top of the board next year I'm not sure how to even start answering the question at this point.

Well you seem to have a ton of knowledge about amateur players...

so if the draft were to be held tomorrow who would you select with picks two, three, and four?

I think we'll likely end up with one of those, and I'm just curious. I know a lot of things can change and wouldn't hold you to this come next June.

Personally I feel like Cole will go #2, Purke #3, and Jungmann #4, with Rendon going #1.

[cmwebb24]

Thought this was interesting...

Threw a tweet out to the masses to rank the '11 college arms..

Jason Churchill responded with Cole, Gray, Barnes top 3. Then Hultzen, Purke, then Jungmann, Bauer.

Gun to my head right now, I'm not sold on Purke either being in the top 3. Though as stotle said too much talent right now to be safe one thing.

Just wanted to mention that mainly to make me feel better that I'm not insane by having him not up there.

[H0smash]

Thought this was interesting...

Threw a tweet out to the masses to rank the '11 college arms..

Jason Churchill responded with Cole, Gray, Barnes top 3. Then Hultzen, Purke, then Jungmann, Bauer.

Gun to my head right now, I'm not sold on Purke either being in the top 3. Though as stotle said too much talent right now to be safe one thing.

Just wanted to mention that mainly to make me feel better that I'm not insane by having him not up there.

Well I certainly don't consider myself anything close to an expert on the draft. Could you tell me more about Gray and Barnes?