ESPN is reporting...

[geschinger]

What is the MLB's PED program lacking, IYO?

The banned substance list is exhaustive.

The testing is random, and IIRC yearlong.

The punishments are severe.

Aside from blood testing for HGH, what changes do you think are needed?

Blood testing at least for players who are tied to HGH in any way shape or form. MLB should not be toothless to do anything about situations with players who are discovered to be acquiring it. I'd like to see MLB take some it's record profits and subsidize the development of less intrusive testing. Anything but sweeping the problem under the rug and pretending like it doesn't exist.

[Sports Guy]

How so? The pressure from all the hoopla around the time of the congressional hearings led to the MLBPA being more flexible than they had been in the past to get the flawed and limited testing regime we have now. Before that they were squarely against anything. Without naming names and generating more pressure on the players how do you suppose we'd get the MLBPA to agree to a more comprehensive testing program?

How about the threat of announcing the names?

Tell the MLBPA that you will announce the names unless they do more.

[geschinger]

How about the threat of announcing the names?

Tell the MLBPA that you will announce the names unless they do more.

A little blackmail never hurts... Works for me if it got the job done.

[Why Not?]

What is the MLB's PED program lacking, IYO?

The banned substance list is exhaustive.

The testing is random, and IIRC yearlong.

The punishments are severe.

Aside from blood testing for HGH, what changes do you think are needed?

The cheaters have always been -- and probably always will be -- ahead of the testers. There are undetectable drugs and ways to mask the drugs for which there are tests. From what I understand it's pretty easy to beat even the most exhaustive tests.

That's not specifically a problem with MLB's testing program, it's just the facts of the matter. Shining a light on those who have cheated but got away with it because of better science just makes sense.

Before taking that undetectable steroid, the next Marion Jones will have to consider whether she wants to deal with public scorn a decade from now. Anything that can be done to stop the cheating has to be done.

[DrLev]

I don't know how much thought people have been putting into this, but I for one am dreading the release of the Mitchell Report (chock full of names, both big and small), for the sake of the Orioles organization and players. There have been a lot of Orioles players, past and present, who have surfaced throughout the steroids investigation, from Rafael Palmeiro (obviously) to Jay Gibbons to Brian Roberts. I fear the hammer is going to come down hard...really hard...on the O's more than anyone else. This is not to say I'd condone any evidence of use by our players (even Brian Roberts), because I wouldn't, but I really hope most of our guys come up clean after the report is released. Signs are pointing to a bumpy ride for the boys from Baltimore.

[Sports Guy]

http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54120

[geschinger]

I don't know how much thought people have been putting into this, but I for one am dreading the release of the Mitchell Report (chock full of names, both big and small), for the sake of the Orioles organization and players. There have been a lot of Orioles players, past and present, who have surfaced throughout the steroids investigation, from Rafael Palmeiro (obviously) to Jay Gibbons to Brian Roberts. I fear the hammer is going to come down hard...really hard...on the O's more than anyone else. This is not to say I'd condone any evidence of use by our players (even Brian Roberts), because I wouldn't, but I really hope most of our guys come up clean after the report is released. Signs are pointing to a bumpy ride for the boys from Baltimore.

I'm looking at it positively. Deal with any fallout from players that are tagged as having cheated and hopefully we'll stop or at least slow down the parlor game of is X, Y or Z player a cheater.

[MemorialStadKid]

The thing about this whole steroid mess is that we all -- on some level -- knew that steroids were a part of the game for a while. Even though the players' health was/is a major factor, this is all one big distraction from things like Iraq and other more pressing social issues.

How will this effect the Orioles?

Not much if you think about it. How many people are going to boo Brian Roberts? How many people are suddenly going to look further down upon the Orioles organization?

Roberts (assuming he is named) has never testified in front of congress and, for the most part, B-Rob doesn't have the stigma that Raffy had during 2005.

This report is a lot of hot air that will be forgotten in the weeks following this the same way most things are in our media-obsessed short-attention-span society.

At this point, most baseball fans I know simply don't care about the steroid mess unless its about Bonds. Even Giambi managed to keep his career intact after his steroid "admission." This will only get as big as we make it by talking about the investigation repeatedly.

If Orioles are named who are currently on the team, worst case scenario is that we trade or release them and get new, young talent. Not a bad place to be at all.

MSK

[RShack]

What is the MLB's PED program lacking, IYO?

The banned substance list is exhaustive.

The testing is random, and IIRC yearlong.

The punishments are severe.

Aside from blood testing for HGH, what changes do you think are needed?

I think you meant to say, "Aside from permitting the only existing test for HGH..." ;-)

The other thing you'd probably want is to save players urine/blood samples to permit future testing of them. Since it's about 100% likely that there will be an ongoing arms race between substances and the tests to detect them, then one tool you'd want to have is the ability to take a newly developed test and apply it to an old sample. You can't retroactively make something illegal that wasn't illegal at the time, but you can take a new-and-better test and go back and see if they were using it back when it was already illegal but when there was no effective test for it. I don't think they have this now, but I'm not really sure about that.

ps: MLB has been funding some guy at UCLA to develop a urine test for HGH. About a year ago, they said it would take about a year. Dunno the current status of it.

[davearm]

Blood testing at least for players who are tied to HGH in any way shape or form. MLB should not be toothless to do anything about situations with players who are discovered to be acquiring it. I'd like to see MLB take some it's record profits and subsidize the development of less intrusive testing. Anything but sweeping the problem under the rug and pretending like it doesn't exist.

That'll never work. You either blood test everyone, or noone.

As I mentioned, every union out there is fighting against blood testing, on the grounds of protecting privacy rights. It's not as though MLB is just behind the times on this issue.

[RShack]

That'll never work. You either blood test everyone, or noone.

As I mentioned, every union out there is fighting against blood testing, on the grounds of protecting privacy rights. It's not as though MLB is just behind the times on this issue.

I agree with you about the blood tests. I don't fault the union for that. I also think the impending media bloodbath might be the only way to get them to OK blood tests.

I'd hate it if they went snooping around in my blood (or pee)... not because there's anything bad in there, but just because. However, given what guys have done, are doing, and will continue to do, I don't see any way around it... so, I guess it comes down to "If you wanna make a zillion bucks for playing a game, then give up the privacy of your own body..."

ps: Is it just me, or is it completely silly that they test for pot? Pot has been accused of being many things, but I've never heard anybody claim it enhanced athletic performance. If they're gonna go snooping around in your bodily fluids, I think it should only be for stuff that might impact performance in a *positive* way. If I was a NFL linebacker, I think I'd *prefer* that Ricky Williams smoke a joint right before the game.

[geschinger]

That'll never work. You either blood test everyone, or noone.

As I mentioned, every union out there is fighting against blood testing, on the grounds of protecting privacy rights. It's not as though MLB is just behind the times on this issue.

Until less intrusive testing is available, I'd settle for equality with the NFL. If there is evidence of HGH Roger Goodell is not toothless to respond with penalties. Under similar circumstances MLB is powerless.

[blueberryale77]

Sounds like the "official report" is going to be nothing but another collection of rumors and innuendo...

"Everybody about whom allegations have been made and whom I would consider including in my report will be given an opportunity to hear the allegations against them and respond to them in a personal meeting with me," Mitchell said in a March 1 interview with The Associated Press.

He said Friday that he has given players general notice.

"For each player about whom allegations have been received of illegal use of performance-enhancing substances, I have provided the years during which the alleged use occurred and the name of the teams with which the player was then affiliated," he said. "I asked to meet with them for the purpose of directly providing them with the evidence about the allegations and to give them a chance to respond.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AsUSRck7v4FoYncY3tZxYyYRvLYF?slug=ap-steroids&prov=ap&type=lgns

So in other words he's going to include players who have merely been accused without a paper trail or a failed test and assume that their lack of interest in making themselves look like rats to their colleagues and friends by meeting with him is a sign of guilt. That means Roberts and Tejada will probably be mentioned, although he may not have any more proof against them than the LA Times did. This does absolutely nothing toward establishing justice or putting the issue to rest. The one thing you can be sure of is that certain individuals, both players and management, will be protected from public scorn no matter how guilty they are, and that others will suffer disproportionately from the wrath of a public that is willing to elect an admitted steroid user from 20 years ago when they were just as illegal as they are now governor of a state but suddenly can't stand the thought of baseball players using them (in much more moderation than Schwarzenneger did) because a surly black man who happened to use steroids broke a stupid home run record.

[Why Not?]

Sounds like the "official report" is going to be nothing but another collection of rumors and innuendo...

So in other words he's going to include players who have merely been accused without a paper trail or a failed test and assume that their lack of interest in making themselves look like rats to their colleagues and friends by meeting with him is a sign of guilt. That means Roberts and Tejada will probably be mentioned, although he may not have any more proof against them than the LA Times did.

I think you are jumping to conclusions about what sort of allegations would prompt a name to be included in the report. I'm sure Mitchell is looking into the internet pharmacies and Kirk Radomski. But I wouldn't expect him to tackle, say, Sammy Sosa, just because he looks like a guy who did steroids.

If a player refuses to defend himself because he doesn't want to "look like a rat" then the player probably deserves what they get. I think it's more likely the players are hiding behind the union. Or perhaps they don't have the ammunition to defend themself. If steroids were shipped to an address that is in fact their address, I don't think there is much you can say.

[blueberryale77]

I think you are jumping to conclusions about what sort of allegations would prompt a name to be included in the report. I'm sure Mitchell is looking into the internet pharmacies and Kirk Radomski. But I wouldn't expect him to tackle, say, Sammy Sosa, just because he looks like a guy who did steroids.

If a player refuses to defend himself because he doesn't want to "look like a rat" then the player probably deserves what they get. I think it's more likely the players are hiding behind the union. Or perhaps they don't have the ammunition to defend themself. If steroids were shipped to an address that is in fact their address, I don't think there is much you can say.

I'm not jumping to conclusions. He said "allegations" not "evidence." Credit card information or even shipping records from a pharmacy would be more than allegations. The word of Kirk Radomski without any corroborating evidence should not be enough to justify damaging someone's career by including their name in the report. Certainly the people Radomski named should be investigated, but if the only "dirt" Mitchell can drag up is that the player didn't feel like participating in his witch hunt, that is not enough to justify the damage he will do to them by printing their name in his report. Perhaps he just spoke imprecisely, but from what he said it is clear that he will deal in his report with mere "allegations" or in other words, heresay.

If a player gets a finger pointed at them by somebody and doesn't want to talk to George Mitchell about it, that's perfectly within his rights and while some people who want to believe they are guilty or don't understand any of the nuances of the situation may take that as a sign of guilt, the professional investigator in the case should know better. There is probably no player in baseball who doesn't have knowledge of other players using PEDs and in many cases, the players they have that knowledge about are their friends. Most of the players who haven't used probably did feel some pressure to do so and therefore have some sympathy for the guys who caved and used something. They have every reason not to want to put themselves in a situation where they're going to be pressured to divulge information about others in order to protect their own name, and that pressure could be applied just as easily to an accused but innocent player as to a guilty player. The whole thing is just a mockery and has done nothing but further undermine any remaining "credibility" MLB had.