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Greg Pappas

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I want to know how someone is suppose to get to the bottom of 'it', when they don't have subpoena powers. Sounds like some names will be mentioned, but they'll have never have gotten to the bottom of it.

From MLB

What is MLB's alternative ? To do nothing ?

Mitchell doesn't need subpoena powers. This isn't a criminal investigation. His is an internal MLB investigation. He (through Bud) can put pressure on mlb employees to cooperate or face punishment/termination etc.

Does your employer need "subpoena" power to get to the bottom of something in your workplace ?

Mitchell's staff repeatedly has asked to speak with active players, but nearly all have refused.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7328090?FSO2&ATT=MA

What does that say about the players ? Are you more inclined to believe that they are as pure as fresh snow or that they have something to hide ?

Mitchell is not going to just pull names out of thin air. He will have crossed his t's and dotted his i's. He has given every playe the opportunity to discuss the matter.

MLB will win PR points with this report because at least they tried to clean the game up. We can debate all day long how well of a job or even how sincere they are.....but at least they did something.

THe pressure will be even tighter after the report on the MLBPA who have done nothing at all but stonewall this issue (roids/hgh,etc) since day one.

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The only way this doesn't end up further scarring the Orioles is if the results are so damning, league-wide, that every club is brutally exposed. By all the publicly available evidence to-date, the Orioles and Rangers clubhouses look awfully bad...far worse than others, even if only in appearances. If the report further damns the Orioles players that are already under strong suspicion, I think it just back MacPhail into a corner from which he really has to blow it all up. I would expect Angelos will interfere and demand that we distance ourselves from every player named...even if we get little to nothing in return.

I love Selig's response. "I have no concern". It's the "Mission Accomplished" of baseball.

To me, Mitchell is the Judge Landis in this scenario. His political identity is now tied to this investigation. He has to produce. This will be ugly.

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I dont know how to link stuff but anyone doubting my comment about Yao Ming. Google "Operation Yao Ming" By Brook Larmer. Former Newsweek writer.

The William Sisters comment is harder to track down. Saw it on a interview show like 20\20 or 60 minutes probally around ten years ago. I remember it because it stuck me as so mercenary. The fathers statement was he was watching Tennis on tv. He didnt know anything about the sport. He heard how much the female atheletes could make. So he turned to his wife and said we are going to have more children. 2 in case one didnot turn out as expected. He then began to train them.

If you google the Williams father and Sisters history you get almost the exact story but with out the turning to the wife and saying we are gonna have 2 more kids. I think they have sanitased the versions over the years. To make it less a giant gross plan. However it was.

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Well we're in diametric opposition, because for the life of me I still can't grasp what baseball thinks it is trying to accomplish with this Mitchell probe.

Ritualistic public sacrifice of some player reputations... establishing the appearance of MLB thoroughness... sweeping things out from under the rug... finding and playing the tape to show what was said during Nixon's 18-minute gap... etc.

No report or investigative probe in the world can clear this mess up entirely. There's always going to be more uncertainty than clarity, more suspicion than proof, and more circumstantial evidence than hard evidence with regard to the who's, the what's, and the when's of PED use that took place years ago.

We're never ever ever, not in a million years going to learn *everybody* who used PEDs.

And those that we can confidently say used PEDs, we'll never ever ever get to the bottom of the what, starting when, for how long, and to what benefit questions.

And even if all of the above was possible, there's still no clear view on what to do with the information if we had it.

It seems to me that baseball is spending a whole heckuva lot of time, energy, and focus on this issue, when they know going in that the information they're going to get back is going to be both imperfect and incomplete.

That's all true. But it doesn't change the fact that they have to provide the best-possible appearance of shining light into dark corners.

Far better, IMO, would be for them to put their money and resources into forward-looking initiatives focused on detection, prevention, punishment, etc.

It's not an either-or choice. They're gonna do both (to some degree, anyway).

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Ritualistic public sacrifice of some player reputations... establishing the appearance of MLB thoroughness... sweeping things out from under the rug... finding and playing the tape to show what was said during Nixon's 18-minute gap... etc.

That's all true. But it doesn't change the fact that they have to provide the best-possible appearance of shining light into dark corners.

It's not an either-or choice. They're gonna do both (to some degree, anyway).

Well this is where we disagree.

IMO the sooner MLB takes this stuff off of the front page, the better off it will be.

Especially considering that this investigation is likely to leave more questions than answers. Maybe I'm not giving Mitchell and his crew enough credit, but I don't see this probe resolving much of anything.

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Well this is where we disagree.

IMO the sooner MLB takes this stuff off of the front page, the better off it will be.

I think we disagree, but not about that. I completely agree with the bolded part. We disagree about what is required to accomplish that. I think that ignoring it will just lead to endless picking at the scab. I think that, given that a lot of people are disgusted by it *and* given that the media are sharks in the water, MLB needs to arrange for the media to have a big feeding frenzy and get it done, so that people will think they know what really happened (even if they don't know all of it), and so the media sharks can move on to whatever's next. (Maybe we have different opinions about that?)

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Well this is where we disagree.

IMO the sooner MLB takes this stuff off of the front page, the better off it will be.

Especially considering that this investigation is likely to leave more questions than answers. Maybe I'm not giving Mitchell and his crew enough credit, but I don't see this probe resolving much of anything.

For years MLB was pounded for not doing anything about steroids. Now that they are doing something, they are getting pounded for it. I'm not sure what the league should do.

I wish the NFL got the same scrutiny. It's pretty obvious steroid use is running rampant and unchecked in football.

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For years MLB was pounded for not doing anything about steroids. Now that they are doing something, they are getting pounded for it. I'm not sure what the league should do.

I wish the NFL got the same scrutiny. It's pretty obvious steroid use is running rampant and unchecked in football.

MLB was rightly pounded for ignoring the PED problem.

Now they're doing something meaningful to keep PEDs out of the game now and in the future.

But this Mitchell investigation is not about keeping PEDs out of the game now or in the future. It's about exposing and reliving sins of the past, and I just don't see much point in that, especially since, as I've said, nothing remotely approaching the complete story is going to be told, or ever can be.

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The Mitchell report is already written. It's as if the committee has some agreement with Selig not to release this now as it could detract from the playoffs and world series. The irony is by waiting to release the names, it only serves to stir up what will already be an enormous media frenzy.

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MLB was rightly pounded for ignoring the PED problem.

Now they're doing something meaningful to keep PEDs out of the game now and in the future.

But this Mitchell investigation is not about keeping PEDs out of the game now or in the future. It's about exposing and reliving sins of the past, and I just don't see much point in that, especially since, as I've said, nothing remotely approaching the complete story is going to be told, or ever can be.

You're right, all the facts won't be revealed and can't realistically be obtained. But whatever facts CAN be made public should be.

I see value in this in that MLB is making an attempt to be transparent about what's happened (and is happening). I also think it should be made clear to the players that while the drug they're using today might not be detected on a test, you might still be nailed for it down the road. In that regard, the Mitchell investigation is a deterent for players using undetectable drugs.

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Well we're in diametric opposition, because for the life of me I still can't grasp what baseball thinks it is trying to accomplish with this Mitchell probe.

No report or investigative probe in the world can clear this mess up entirely. There's always going to be more uncertainty than clarity, more suspicion than proof, and more circumstantial evidence than hard evidence with regard to the who's, the what's, and the when's of PED use that took place years ago.

We're never ever ever, not in a million years going to learn *everybody* who used PEDs.

And those that we can confidently say used PEDs, we'll never ever ever get to the bottom of the what, starting when, for how long, and to what benefit questions.

And even if all of the above was possible, there's still no clear view on what to do with the information if we had it.

It seems to me that baseball is spending a whole heckuva lot of time, energy, and focus on this issue, when they know going in that the information they're going to get back is going to be both imperfect and incomplete.

Far better, IMO, would be for them to put their money and resources into forward-looking initiatives focused on detection, prevention, punishment, etc.

You can't undo the past, so do everything you can to get the PEDs out of today's game, and prevent a reoccurrence of this mess happening in the future.

I agree with this 100%.

The only reason you might want to know about the past is if some clubs may want to go through the court system to void some contracts. In the NFL, an arbitrator ruled that Mike Vick was violating league rules when he signed his last deal and ATL was basically able to sue for the signing bonus money. Maybe an analogous thing can be said about the Gibbons case, irrespective of what the CBA says.

Other than that, I really don't care what happened in the past at all. To me, the Mitchell report/investigation is mostly pointless.

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50 games? Is that what the first offender get? I thought the CBA said 10 or 20 games. I wasn't thinking that Gibbons would get more then that.

It was a 10 game suspension in 2005 (so that's what Gibbons could get and it's what Raffy got). It may have increased to 50 between 2005 and 2006.

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I agree with this 100%.

The only reason you might want to know about the past is if some clubs may want to go through the court system to void some contracts. In the NFL, an arbitrator ruled that Mike Vick was violating league rules when he signed his last deal and ATL was basically able to sue for the signing bonus money. Maybe an analogous thing can be said about the Gibbons case, irrespective of what the CBA says.

Other than that, I really don't care what happened in the past at all. To me, the Mitchell report/investigation is mostly pointless.

Or you want to know about the past because you want to restore lost credibility to a game where many fans/ex-fans think the game is just a step above WWE when it comes to the integrity of the competition and its records.

There is also value in knowing what happened in the past simply for no other reason than the historical record.

What there is no value in is sweeping it all under the rug.

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